Shocking Friday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[whpaul]

Hello out there,

today the first test-drive with new engine and new transmission was planned.
But while adjusting the el. choke the car suddenly made some metallic noise like rrrrrrrrrattt and moved strongly backwards.
No driver in! The car got stopped at a small concrete wall and hooked itself up.

All were shocked. I am happy nobody got hurt, rest is only metal.

We found out that when you slightly move the car, the transmission switches itself from "P" to reverse.

Transmission is brand new overhold. We called the company and ship it back on monday for troubleshooting and repair.

I hope there is a good reason for this, one I understand, this is important for me to trust that technology.
A problem like this can cause a lot of danger.

whpaul

[Petrolhead]

Hi

Lucky escape!

I would bet that it's not a transmisison problem. The noise you describe is exactly like when the shift lever drops out of park into reverse. This is a common problem, my '62 did it all the time. It can be one of two things: incorrect adjustment of the shifter, which is likely as the engine and trans have obviously just been put back in; or the detent plate inside the column is worn, which was the problem with mine. The detent plate is an easy fix, just do a search on this site and you'll see photos etc.
Make sure you check this before the shop spends your money taking the trans out.
Does your car have the swing-away steerig wheel? If so, make sure you always slide the streering wheel to the right when the car is in park - the trans lever can't slip into reverse when the steerig column is in this position. Glad to see the damage isn't too bad. No bodywork damage luckily

[whpaul]

Hi

Lucky escape!

I would bet that it's not a transmisison problem. The noise you describe is exactly like when the shift lever drops out of park into reverse. This is a common problem, my '62 did it all the time. It can be one of two things: incorrect adjustment of the shifter, which is likely as the engine and trans have obviously just been put back in; or the detent plate inside the column is worn, which was the problem with mine. The detent plate is an easy fix, just do a search on this site and you'll see photos etc.
Make sure you check this before the shop spends your money taking the trans out.
Does your car have the swing-away steerig wheel? If so, make sure you always slide the streering wheel to the right when the car is in park - the trans lever can't slip into reverse when the steerig column is in this position. Glad to see the damage isn't too bad. No bodywork damage luckily

........we found out that the trans switches without connected to the shift lever. once you move the gear manually at the transmission to park position and then move the car slightly it switches reverse.That locking click at "p" is missing.

whpaul

[Guest]

It sounds like a bad detent plate or the linkage is not adjusted right

[YellowRose]

Shocking Friday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Should it turn out to be a bad detent plate in the steering wheel, Alexander's sister, Marianne, has taken over the ordering of detent plates. They are available for our Squarebirds, Bulletbirds, Flairbirds, and other Ford vehicles. Go to the Home page, click on the detent plate link for Bulletbirds, and it will take you through the ordering process. She should be able to get a new one to you in short order. After 50 years, it is a good bet that detent plate is worn, causing the problem that many of us have had on this Forum with our Tbirds.

[whpaul]

Should it turn out to be a bad detent plate in the steering wheel, Alexander's sister, Marianne, has taken over the ordering of detent plates. They are available for our Squarebirds, Bulletbirds, Flairbirds, and other Ford vehicles. Go to the Home page, click on the detent plate link for Bulletbirds, and it will take you through the ordering process. She should be able to get a new one to you in short order. After 50 years, it is a good bet that detent plate is worn, causing the problem that many of us have had on this Forum with our Tbirds.

Yes I already ordered that dental plate , and it is lying on the workbench. It was planned as a next step to replace it.

But again the problem occurs even when the shifter is not connected to the transmission.

whpaul

[Guest]

That problem is in the trans! The parking paw is worn. just my 2 cent!

[simplyconnected]

I totally agree with Alistair, Bob, Ray, and Bill. The car should ALWAYS have the transmission arms connected, with the neutral switch adjusted properly. The detent plate holds the transmission arms in the gear selected. Tire movement has NO affect on the column shifter lever.

If your lever moves out of position without human intervention, then the detent is malfunctioning in the steering column.

I am agast anyone would work on an unattended-running car with a newly assembled transmission without tire chocks, or the drive wheels lifted off the ground. The pictures bear witness that your Thunderbird was moving fast. Even after the drive-wheel came off the ground, it kept going quite far. You got very lucky. There could have been seniors, children, pets, or expensive property, in the collision path.

Listen to these members with decades of experience with Thunderbirds. - Dave

[whpaul]

New information

Hallo TBird-friends,

at my problem a think I got clother to the reason!

The transmission is again back from the company after our claim, first check proves now a stable lock on P-position, but the problem now is moved to the L-postion.

I paid 2000$ for complete overhauling the transmission and now that.

We took it apart and found the origin problem as you see on the picture.The rod which moves the detent is blocked by itself at the outer-end position.I don't know why but with only a very little milling or grinding it can work.

But what we found as we open the transmission stocked our breath. A crack in the crossbeam that somebody tried to fix totally unprofessional.

This transmission we cant use anymore and repairing by welding can work but also can fail after some time. I think we have to get a new or a exchange transmission. We begun to search for a good one, hope there is something at the the market.

Does someone know, just in case we cant find one at the market, if there are substitutes or compare-transmissions available?


whpaul

[simplyconnected]

Wolfgang, pardon me for being bold, but you have been grossly cheated and ripped-off.

I have personally rebuilt these transmissions. The very FIRST problem to look for is a cracked casting at the cross beam. Your rebuilder did NOT take your transmission apart, he did not clean all the parts, and there is NO WAY he could have missed this crack or repair.

Examine my web site, and see how it should have been done: CLICK HERE

Picture #16 clearly shows the cross beam. Only a few parts are removed to expose it. Below the cross beam, you see the drum which holds the steel and fibre clutch plates. They are removed AFTER the cross beam was exposed.

Either your rebuilder tried to repair the crack and cover it up without telling you about it, or he simply took your $2,000 and did not overhaul the transmission.

As far as your detent, it worked ok before any milling was done. Your transmission guy did not set it right when he changed the oil seal behind it. This is clearly a very bad job.

After seeing your pictures of the transmission, and the accident they caused on your classic Thunderbird, my advice is to get your car as far away from their garage as possible, and never bring it back.

I am sorry this happened to you. It should not have happened if they worked honesty. It is apparent to me that this mechanic did not put your safety first. They simply wanted your money without doing the work. Garages like this make a bad reputation for the good ones. This upsets me terribly.

From time to time, I see these transmissions for sale on eBay. Some are cheap. If you are looking for a good casting, this might be a good place to buy. Whatever you buy needs to be rebuilt PROPERLY by a skilled transmission mechanic. Yours was not. If your mechanic saw this cross beam crack, he would have stopped and called you. Rebuilding a broken casting is impossible.

Around Detroit, a complete transmission overhaul costs around $1,500 INCLUDING a two year warranty. - Dave Dare

[whpaul]

Wolfgang, pardon me for being bold, but you have been grossly cheated and ripped-off.

I have personally rebuilt these transmissions. The very FIRST problem to look for is a cracked casting at the cross beam. Your rebuilder did NOT take your transmission apart, he did not clean all the parts, and there is NO WAY he could have missed this crack or repair.

Examine my web site, and see how it should have been done: CLICK HERE

Picture #16 clearly shows the cross beam. Only a few parts are removed to expose it. Below the cross beam, you see the drum which holds the steel and fibre clutch plates. They are removed AFTER the cross beam was exposed.

Either your rebuilder tried to repair the crack and cover it up without telling you about it, or he simply took your $2,000 and did not overhaul the transmission.

As far as your detent, it worked ok before any milling was done. Your transmission guy did not set it right when he changed the oil seal behind it. This is clearly a very bad job.

After seeing your pictures of the transmission, and the accident they caused on your classic Thunderbird, my advice is to get your car as far away from their garage as possible, and never bring it back.

I am sorry this happened to you. It should not have happened if they worked honesty. It is apparent to me that this mechanic did not put your safety first. They simply wanted your money without doing the work. Garages like this make a bad reputation for the good ones. This upsets me terribly.

From time to time, I see these transmissions for sale on eBay. Some are cheap. If you are looking for a good casting, this might be a good place to buy. Whatever you buy needs to be rebuilt PROPERLY by a skilled transmission mechanic. Yours was not. If your mechanic saw this cross beam crack, he would have stopped and called you. Rebuilding a broken casting is impossible.

Around Detroit, a complete transmission overhaul costs around $1,500 INCLUDING a two year warranty. - Dave Dare

Hello Dave

yes in all points You are very right, but it happened. The shop doing the main part of restoration took themselves a lawyer to claim at the company what overholded???? the transmission. It seems that this is not my trouble.I still can`t believe that company is here in europe well recommended. We didn`t give that job to third party barn shop, the have had hundreds good reputations.

But anyway it seems that it will be hard to get another transmission here in Germany or even in Europe.The only company might have one is that Yankee Motors. But in this conflict no chance.

For the case we can`t get one over here I will buy it in USA.

Can You give me for that case some assistance?

I need a trustful company, it is hard to claim from here, that will deliver top quality, I like to buy the best not the cheapest!!
And the problem is, I can`t send the the old trans over, that means a core deal makes no sense, transportation cost are to high.

thanks for Your assistance

whpaul

[simplyconnected]

mein lieber Herr Paul!
I am so sorry this happened to you. I never call anyone a cheat or a liar unless there is proof, and lots of it. I knew someone would contact a lawyer when I saw your pictures. The damage and financial loss on your classic Thunderbird cannot be forgiven without much compensation.

The truth is, we rarely see these transmissions. In the old days, all the transmission shops were very familiar with them and aftermarket parts were available. Today, transmission shops know modern setups, but only the old mechanics are familiar with our classic transmissions.

These transmission castings went out of production back in the 1960's. Since then, restorers cannot find new ones so we depend on good used transmissions. As long as they have not been badly abused, a rebuilt transmission will work like a new one. You saw my pictures. I show the bands and clutches in my transmission are like new, but the trans is from 1959. I did replace one bushing, but new parts and rebuild kits are available.

das Guss ist kaputt, but many parts inside are still good. I suggest you look for a good used transmission and have it sent to Germany. I hope you can find an honest transmission shop in Germany, to overhaul a good used transmission. If you cannot find one, we have many here.

Exactly, which transmission do you need? Cruise-O-Matic's came in three casting sizes. My case is 'small' because it came out of a 1959 Ford Galaxie. If you are not sure, measure the oil pan opening from front to back.

We will help you however we can. - Dave

[YellowRose]

Shocking Friday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi Wolfgang,

I am going to give you some information that might be helpful to you and others regarding that transmission case. I just talked with Don at Bird Nest. He said the COM transmission cases for the '58-'62 trannys were notorious for breaking at the point of that bolt in your picture. It was/is a very common thing to happen. He said that Ford eventually realized they had a problem there and fixed that problem by building a more sturdier case in that area in the '63 COM and up. If you are not shooting for a numbers matching car, you are probably better off with a reinforced case from a '63 or up.

He said he can get you another original COM case if you would want one, for $650, plus shipping. They are hard to come by, but he can find one. However, for $350, plus shipping, he has plenty of the reinforced '63 and up COM cases that will work on your '61 COM. I am assuming that is what you have in your Tbird. This case will be off one of their donor cars and will not be cracked. He said you will have to know if your case is a Small, Medium or Large case. He said it is probably a Medium case.

Now, for $850, plus shipping, he can ship you a 1961 core transmission with case. It will not be overhauled. It will come off one of their donor cars as is. For $650, plus shipping, he can send you a 1963 or up, core transmission, as is, with case. They might work as is, or you might have to have it overhauled. In fact, it probably should be.I asked him why the the '63 is cheaper and he said because on the '61's he has to inspect any he wants to pull and make sure the case is not cracked. On most of them they are, he said. It is time consuming and time is money. On a '63 and up, he does not have that concern, though, of course, he will check it.

If you need to talk with Don you can reach him at 800-232-6378. His email is don@tbirdparts.com Now, you might want to contact Bob at Bob's Bird House, 302-449-1966 email bobtbird@ix.netcom.com or John Draxler at Tbird Ranch to see if they can help. jdrax@tds.net 715-884-6546. John is hard to get sometimes. They also have a lot of parts off donor cars.

I hope this helps you! Before you do anything, you might want to talk with Don via the phone or email and confirm everything that I said, to make sure I have this right!

The other thing I should ask here is: Does anyone have a good Medium COM case or COM they are willing to part with? If so, please let Wolfgang know.

[GTE427]

Ray,

Good info to know when sourcing used transmissions. Did he mention if this weak point is typical for all three case sizes 1962 and earlier?

[YellowRose]

Shocking Friday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To answer GTE's question, Don said this problem existed on the '58-'62 Medium sized cases, which were mostly used on our 352 equipped Tbirds. It did NOT happen on the Large case COM's for the 430 engine. The Small case COM's were used on the smaller Ford cars.