Hard Cold Starting Problem

[bcomo]

Casey:

That's exactly what I do, and I use a Tach so I can see when the RPM starts to drop. Sometimes a hook up a Vacuum gauge at the same time.

John:

Coil is new, but I haven't checked the Pertronix gap --is that supposed to be .030 or .040 I forget and don't have the instructions -- does anyone know that from their instructions?

Intake gaskets and Carb gaskets are new.

Thanks and I'll keep you posted.

[JohnG]

Pertronix information can be found at:

http://www.vintageperformance.com/retrorockets/Tech%20Information.htm

John

[byersmtrco]

That reminds me too.
Don't pump it that many times. Hit it once. Crank it. See what happens
If nothing, another little squirt. With my Edelbrock (Carter), my car can sit for a year & 3 pumps & it's flooded. Fires up "Blap blap blap" Runs on 3 cyls til it clears out.

Ok, maybe not a year . . . I know , I know . . . You've told me a million times not to exagerate.

[FeFranco]

If you don't have an electric choke then you must be activating it manually, right? I still think its your choke, because fast idle should be maybe over 1200 rpm. You said your fast idle is at 575 rpm. And please do NOT put raw fuel down your carb, that can be tragic. And 20 pumps before starting WILL flood the engine. Once should do it.

[JohnG]

I agree with Franco... way too much gas.

I pump mine twice and it starts instantly. I figure once is to clear the linkage and get the choke closed, and the second one is to get a little gas in there. More than that and I would assume something was wrong.

Nice thing about a choke is you can visually check it out and make sure it is closing.

When I first got my TBird, it had high mileage and little areas here and there that people had screwed around with. I had starting problems (hot) for quite awhile until I discovered the bottom spacer on the air filter housing was gone and the bottom of the housing was interfering with the movement on top of the car. Did not know it until I saw the metal scratches on the bottom of the housing. I doubt this is your problem but the point is that little details can kill you sometimes.

Hang in there!!

John

[bcomo]

When the engine is cold, the choke closes to 1/8" -- per the shop manual.

When the engine is warmed up, it fully opens.

I can adjust the fast idle on the high step of the choke to boost the RPM if that will help. I can do that easily and see what happens.

I have to confess that this may all be my fault. I checked with the paint shop, since they have moved my car from time to time. They said that they just pump it 3 or 4 times and it starts right up. I'll have the car back next week, and see if this is the case.

[Penelope]

I know , I know . . . You've told me a million times not to exagerate.[/quote]

A million times? I think you are exagerating there

[bcomo]

Problem Solved !!!!

Now that I have the car back from the paint shop, and chrome back together, I decided to get back to why it takes 15 pumps to start my 430. Here's what I found to fix it.

First of all, the actuating arm going to the accelerator pump was in the middle hole (this is on a Carter carb). It should be in the TOP hole according to the shop manual -- that gives the pump more stroke.

Changing that helped some, but didn't fix it all.

Next, I looked at the ignition, and the answer was staring me in the face all of the time. I have a Pertronix module AND FlameThrower coil. The module and the coil were only operating on 6 Volts through the resistor wire. I had forgotten to change that to 12 Volts sometime back. I checked with a Tech at Pertronix, and he said that 12 Volts to both of them is a MUST to get them working right.

I bypassed the resistor wire today and ran "keyed" 12 Volts to the coil and piggybacked the module to the same wire at the coil.

Now both of them have 12 Volts, and the car started with 2 pumps.

[scumdog]

Nice to know you sussed out the problem!!

[JohnG]

Interesting that on a 58 or 59 you never would have had the problem in the first place. The wiring on these is such that while starting (starter motor turned on), a full 12 V is supplied to the coil, while once running, the ballast resistor is involved and reduces the voltage to the coil to 6V. In your case, the wiring diagrm seemed to indicate the coil always got 6V.

John

[bcomo]

John:

There is a wire, on the diagrams on 58/59 and 60 coming from the starter relay to the coil, as well as the wire from the ballast resistor (or resistor wire).

Are there TWO wires on the + side of the coil? One from the resistor, and one from the starter relay?

I have always had just one Positive wire there.

[JohnG]

I believe that is the case (2 wires) - haven't checked in ages but I think the idea was to have full 12V for the brief starting time then back to 6 v for the long haul. The 12V would fry the points if used indefinitely but cause a fatter spark in the short run. At least that's my understanding...

[bcomo]

Geez -- I need to check that with someone with a 430 using stock coil and points to see.

Thanks John

[Thunderhans]

reply to late?

John,

I just read your post of 2008.

I do have a 430 with stock coil and points, it does not have a direct 12V to the coil during startup. I discovered that recently (probably it should be there), maybe I will add it, or replace complete ignition by Petronix as you have.

If you need info/ pictures, just let me know.

Greetz,
Hans

[Thunderhans]

sorry

Sorry, I meant Bart, not John