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Rebuilding window motors from a 60

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  • YellowRose
    Super-Experienced


    • Jan 21 2008
    • 17188

    #16
    Rebuilding window motors from a 60

    Martin, welcome back! I hope your sailing is going well for you!

    Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
    The Terminator..... VTCI #11178 ITC #6000 Yellow Mustang Registry (YMR) #12188
    Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or Call (Cell) 210-875-1411

    https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm
    Faye's Ovarian Cancer Memorial Website.
    https://faye.rayclark.info/index.html

    Comment

    • Joe Johnston
      Super-Experienced
      • Dec 23 2008
      • 720

      #17
      Martin has done a great job in showing how to rebuild these motors which are very similar to all the little motors used over many years and locations.

      I would like to add: IF you have a motor that runs but is running slowly there is a good chance it only needs to have the bushings oiled. The exposed shaft end is easy to work oil into - just add a drop. The enclosed end of the motor is not accessable unless it is disassembled. I have had good luck just drilling a small hole in the center of the motor's rear housing and adding a drop or two of oil via a pin oiler. Don't over do it but give the oil a chance to seep into the bushing. Moving the shaft for and aft as well as rotating it helps to work the oil into the bushing. A bit of sealer of your choice can close the hole you drilled.

      Nothing is better than a complete cleaning and rebuild & I realize this is not the "correct" way to fix a problem but it might get a window or fan motor running smother and quieter without a tear down.

      Comment

      • Tbird1044
        Super-Experienced
        • Jul 31 2012
        • 1346

        #18
        Wonderful series on repairing window/p/s motors. I'm sure this will save me from breaking parts and being frustrated later. How are you cleaning the armatures and stator? They come out looking brand new. Also, have you ever found a source for the washers used as shims inside the motors. Every once in a while some of these will come out broken.
        Thanks again for the great post in TRL.
        Nyles

        Comment

        • Dakota Boy
          Super-Experienced
          • Jun 30 2009
          • 1561

          #19
          I'm going to try this procedure with one of my rear quarter window motors this weekend. The motors are VERY weak.

          Wish me luck...

          I will also be sure the motor has a good "ground" while I'm at it.
          http://www.tbirdregistry.com/viewdat...ryNumber=33517

          Comment

          • simplyconnected
            Administrator
            • May 26 2009
            • 8778

            #20
            Use contact cleaner and plenty of rags.
            Do not sand the commutator segments. Brushes 'form' the copper by impregnating carbon into the surface. That lubricates the brushes and keeps them from wearing.

            The only time we dress commutator segments is when they glaze from excessive grease & dirt deposits, or if they deform into 'cup', taper or egg shapes. These are extreme cases.

            Scrape in between the copper segments so they are undercut, make sure the brushes slide freely and you're ready to go.
            Member, Sons of the American Revolution

            CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

            "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
            --Lee Iacocca

            From: Royal Oak, Michigan

            Comment

            • Tbird1044
              Super-Experienced
              • Jul 31 2012
              • 1346

              #21
              I found 2 different style motors when I rebuilt mine. One style has the brushes at the coupling end of the motor and the other style had the brushes located at the bottom of the motor opposite the coupling drive. The style with the brushes nearest the coupling requires more gentle handling as the brush holders can break really easily. If your motor still runs, I cleaned the end of the shaft by running the motor and using a fine grit sandpaper on the shaft to polish it. It still took a little effort to get the shaft out of the bearing. Once you get he motor apart, there is a felt washer around both of the brass bearings. I put a couple drops of oil in this area and the felt soaked it up. It should provide long term lubrication for the brass bushing/bearing. I used some .030" wire I had in the garage to make the pins to retain the brushes if you have the style where they are located in the bottom of the motor. Here is another link in the TRL with some more pics, just in case you missed it: http://www.squarebirds.org/images_mo...indexNyles.htm
              Nyles

              Comment

              • partsetal
                Super-Experienced
                • Jun 4 2005
                • 850

                #22
                I've taken 6 of these apart that worked in one direction only. One set of field coils in each one is badly discolored and obviously the problem. Are there any fixes for this other than rewinding the coils?
                Carl

                Comment

                • simplyconnected
                  Administrator
                  • May 26 2009
                  • 8778

                  #23
                  Originally posted by partsetal
                  ...One set of field coils in each one is badly discolored and obviously the problem. Are there any fixes for this other than rewinding the coils?
                  Carl
                  No, and yes. It depends on how badly you want to save the motor.
                  If replacing the field coil is out of the question, you could mount and wire two relays and use it like a conventional two-wire motor.

                  One relay directs current for UP and the other relay reverses current for DOWN. (In crane language it would be, Hoist and Lower.)
                  This only works if your motor uses a separate ground wire, not connected to the case. Equally important is electrical interlock, where both UP and DOWN could become energized simultaneously. This shouldn't happen using a rocker switch but it certainly could using two (one mounted at each window). Properly wired relays prevent this. If one relay is energized, it opens the other from energizing.

                  I have relays and can provide this setup for you. With my setup, the window button only passes 'control power' for the relay coil. I let the relay contacts handle all the motor power. So at each motor, I require a power wire (constant on) and a solid ground wire. Power may be picked up from the power window wire that is already connected to the relay and circuit breaker on the firewall.

                  BTW, my setup works for GM-type motors as well. They only have two wires and are much cheaper and more plentiful than Ford motors. Later in years, Ford switched to those motors.

                  I hope this helps, Carl. - Dave
                  Member, Sons of the American Revolution

                  CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                  "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                  --Lee Iacocca

                  From: Royal Oak, Michigan

                  Comment

                  • Tbird1044
                    Super-Experienced
                    • Jul 31 2012
                    • 1346

                    #24
                    Dave, that's a great fix. Wouldn't have thought of using individual relays.
                    Carl, did you do resistance checks across the coils and compare the results against a good coil? Should give an indication if they are shorted. I had some dark coils in 2 of my motors, but they still work fine. You could also check with an electric motor shop to see if coils are available. I had a shop rebuild a skill saw for me and it was pretty cheap. Just a thought.

                    Nyles

                    Comment

                    • simplyconnected
                      Administrator
                      • May 26 2009
                      • 8778

                      #25
                      I could do the conversion in solid state as well but relays are much more serviceable and easier to understand for everyone.

                      Whether the 'bad' field coil is open or shorted doesn't matter to the relay scheme. - Dave
                      Member, Sons of the American Revolution

                      CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                      "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                      --Lee Iacocca

                      From: Royal Oak, Michigan

                      Comment

                      • Dakota Boy
                        Super-Experienced
                        • Jun 30 2009
                        • 1561

                        #26
                        Fixed one motor so far this morning. It's a fairly easy process after viewing the information on this website. There was black greasy gunk on the shaft where the brushes touch. After cleaning with contact cleaner and a cloth, plus cleaning out the grooves, there is a VERY noticeable change in how the motor sounds. It sounds like "new"...
                        http://www.tbirdregistry.com/viewdat...ryNumber=33517

                        Comment

                        • simplyconnected
                          Administrator
                          • May 26 2009
                          • 8778

                          #27
                          Originally posted by Dakota Boy
                          ...There was black greasy gunk on the shaft where the brushes touch...
                          Yep, that's the commutator! Your finding is typical; current tries hard to arc through that greasy dirt. Sometimes, it leaves a hard glaze (which needs to be removed) but most of the time a good cleaning, like you did, is all that is necessary.

                          Another condition that is typical... I've never seen the brushes worn down. They don't really go very far, even in fifty years. It seems that all lubricating grease does is pick up dirt and get into everything inside. So, only give a light lube.

                          Nice job, Greg. You just made your motors good for another fifty years for the cost of a can of cleaner and a rag. Did you happen to take any pictures? - Dave
                          Member, Sons of the American Revolution

                          CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                          "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                          --Lee Iacocca

                          From: Royal Oak, Michigan

                          Comment

                          • Dakota Boy
                            Super-Experienced
                            • Jun 30 2009
                            • 1561

                            #28
                            Nope, no pics. They wouldve just been the same as the ones already posted here.

                            Brushes were in the bottom of the unit. I also added some light oil to the felt around the brass bushings at both ends.
                            http://www.tbirdregistry.com/viewdat...ryNumber=33517

                            Comment

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