disc brake conversion

[JohnG]

Ditto!! Please list as many details as possible!!

I reiterate: if anyone is going to the trouble and expense of changing to disks then you might as well end up with really excellent braking! That is the goal; disks are the means to that end.

John
Diskless 1958 Hardtop

[byersmtrco]

You can run 14's. Just not the stock ones.
The Granada M/Cyl will work. My setup is a little different. Knowing what I know now (ow many times have we said THAT before??!!)
I'd have gone with the 11" Granada setup. I'd have saved HUNDREDS of dollars . . . And not have had all the headaches & expense of swaybar he// !!!!!

[Guest]

John
Would it be possille for you to give us the parts list you used for your brakes, you said that you used 11" Granada spindles,did you also use Granada calipaters, what Year Granada ? and you did not have to change the swaybar and what about the 14" Rims what is the back set. I would like to change 59 over this winter,but being a barn yard mechinic there is alot I don"t know any help will be greatly needed.

[KULTULZ]

John

Would it be possille for you to give us the parts list you used for your brakes, you said that you used 11" Granada spindles,did you also use Granada calipaters, what Year Granada ? and you did not have to change the swaybar and what about the 14" Rims what is the back set. I would like to change 59 over this winter,but being a barn yard mechinic there is alot I don"t know any help will be greatly needed.

Gentlemen-

The work has already been done for you-

http://www.squarebirds.org/disc_brake.htm

The article needs to be upgraded to bring the illustrations back.

If you stay with the 11" rotor, you can use 14" steel wheels from a 73/74 TORINO (with 11" instead of 12" rotors) to retain proper wheel/tire size.

You can purchase (aftermarket) a dual 7" booster that will not look too badly on a restoration. Please either use a FORD MC or when ordering specify a FORD MC as part of the kit. Nothing looks worse (to me) than to open a hood on a nice restoration/custom and see DELCO-MORON parts...

Shown in the Ill is a GM MC.

[KULTULZ]

Gentlemen-

If you stay with the 11" rotor, you can use 14" steel wheels from a 73/74 TORINO (with 11" instead of 12" rotors) to retain proper wheel/tire size.

ADDENDUM-

I did extensive brake changeover reseach a few years ago to help guys on a HOT ROD FORUM, but never pieced everything together.

The rotor hub size was increased on the 1972 model run (TORINO). So you will either have to have the snout machined down to accept the early wheels (must be disc brake wheels...special offset) or find a set of original intermediate 14" wheels D3OZ 1007-A (these were used on low trim TORINOS).

The 14'" disc brake wheel I have described above (D3OZ 1007-A) measures 14 x 5 1/2". There was also a 14 x 6" wheel available (stamped steel) D6OZ 1007-A. This will give you a little more tread stability.

Just to help you guys that want to retain the 14" look on your early iron.

In addition, one can use the wheels off the donor car if the wheel is wide enough for your needs. This is why I referenced TORINO wheels earlier.

[YellowRose]

disc brake conversion

IF anyone has those pictures on the disc brake conversion web page that Kultulz referenced, I can fix that page! If you have them, scan them in and send them to me. Or if you do not have a scanner, if you can snail mail them to me, I can scan them in. Or if you have them in a .jpg or .gif format, email them to me.

I have tried to locate Rick Nolen but do not see him listed as a member. I did a google search for him, and found an entry he made over on ridetech.com. I sent him a Pm, but I doubt if he will get it because he has not been back on there for several years. IF anyone knows Rick Nolen and how to get in contact with him, please PM me and let me know. Maybe he still has the pictures and I can get them from him.

[RustyNCa]

Gentlemen-

The work has already been done for you-

http://www.squarebirds.org/disc_brake.htm

The article needs to be upgraded to bring the illustrations back.

If you stay with the 11" rotor, you can use 14" steel wheels from a 73/74 TORINO (with 11" instead of 12" rotors) to retain proper wheel/tire size.

You can purchase (aftermarket) a dual 7" booster that will not look too badly on a restoration. Please either use a FORD MC or when ordering specify a FORD MC as part of the kit. Nothing looks worse (to me) than to open a hood on a nice restoration/custom and see DELCO-MORON parts...

Shown in the Ill is a GM MC.

Hey, I'm 100% certain that's my 58 . And yeah, when I get around to it, I plan on changing to something smaller.

This is the setup I am looking at long term.

http://www.classicperform.com/Store/Master_Cylinder/CP3500-C.htm

Or this one.

http://www.wilwood.com/Products/006-MasterCylinders/009-ATCMC/index.asp

Or some thing that ABS PowerBrakes offers....

ABS electric boost looks very nice, especially when your cam doesn't pull any vacuum like my olds, but they cost $1,200

[KULTULZ]

Hey, I'm 100% certain that's my 58 .

And yeah, when I get around to it, I plan on changing to something smaller.

...sheesh... stepped on my noodle...

I was not bad mouthing your installation, only that my personal preference is to have an installation look OEM or later OEM modified. I hope you have not taken offense as it surely was not intended.

How one modifies their car is strictly their business. How much money they want to spend is their business.

I am just trying to convey that when one strays too far away from origional it is going to hurt the value of the car and also detract from it's appearance and appeal.

That kit you bought does offer a FORD MC.

I am cheap. If I modify, I want all FORD parts and as little custom as possible. When it breaks you will appreciate it.

An example, this gentleman's BIRD.

http://www.squarebirds.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=5197

It has been extensively modified. Unless a buyer is looking for a custom, it will generate little interest as the cost of bringing it back to somewhat NOS will be greater than the final worth of the car.

[Guest]

Kultulz
Thanks for giving us the information about 1975-1980 Granada parts. I got prices for the parts needed and found a local salavage yard that had a 1979 Granada in tha yard,hope To get the needed parts off the car.Total cost will be $300.00 for parts

[JohnG]

OK....let's say I want to take my 1958 TBird and go the 1979 Ford Torino route. Lets say I want to do this next winter. I would ask or guess at the following:

a) disks: get new ones at the autoparts store

b) calipers: get remanufactured ones at the autoparts store. Will these bolt on OK? What is it they bolt on to, anyway??

c) spindles: get these at a salvage yard

d) master cylinder: either rebuild a salvage one or get a
remanufactured on at the auto parts store. Is this a "bolt on" or do I need to do something so my foot pedal operates it. Not interested in power assist. Keep it simple; have strong right leg.

e) 14" wheels: not sure here. Can I get new ones or
do I clean up some oldies? Do the wheels you suggest take my 58 hubcaps??

f) anything else important I missed?? What do I do about the brake light sending unit? I cant imagine those were still in use in 1979

john

[KULTULZ]

Kultulz

Thanks for giving us the information about 1975-1980 Granada parts. I got prices for the parts needed and found a local salavage yard that had a 1979 Granada in tha yard,hope To get the needed parts off the car.Total cost will be $300.00 for parts

Keep in mind that the GRANADA/MONARCH/MAVERICK (V8) and COMET (V8)of the period had the same setups. That will narrow your search.

IF you find the lower ball joint will not attach to the lower spindle hole, it can be machined to accept the ball joint stud.

[KULTULZ]

OK....let's say I want to take my 1958 TBird and go the 1979 Ford Torino route. Lets say I want to do this next winter. I would ask or guess at the following:

a) disks: get new ones at the autoparts store

b) calipers: get remanufactured ones at the autoparts store. Will these bolt on OK? What is it they bolt on to, anyway??

c) spindles: get these at a salvage yard

d) master cylinder: either rebuild a salvage one or get a
remanufactured on at the auto parts store. Is this a "bolt on" or do I need to do something so my foot pedal operates it. Not interested in power assist. Keep it simple; have strong right leg.

e) 14" wheels: not sure here. Can I get new ones or
do I clean up some oldies? Do the wheels you suggest take my 58 hubcaps??

f) anything else important I missed?? What do I do about the brake light sending unit? I cant imagine those were still in use in 1979

john

The most desirable spindles on this swap are the 77/79 BIRD/COUGAR spindles. Although the same casting no., they have been drilled to allow more caster adjustment.

14" wheels will fit over an 11" rotor but not a 12".

The MC is covered in the BIRD Tech Article. You may want to buy new (BENDIX). Overhauled loaded calipers (BENDIX or CARDONE).

I am sure the later 14" wheels will take your wheel covers. Check before buying.

You can plumb in (brass fitting) the old style brake light sending unit in the new system. Don't forget the combination valve from the donor vehicle.

[JohnG]

when you say "14 " wheels " you mean my oldies from '58 or ones from 79 or . . . ???

[DKheld]

Discs

Sorry about this long post but after reading this thread I finally had to join this group hopefully to save someone the same grief I went through on my Tbird disc conversion. There is a group I belong to on Yahoo that went through this same thing years ago.

I converted my '60 to disc brakes about 4 years ago.


The mid to late 70's Torino/Tbird spindles DO NOT work and I bet the Cougars are the same as the Torino. The main thing I have found is that many people will tell you this or that part works but if you ask questions and they don't have the details chances are the're just running their mouth - that was my expirence. I would ask if that person with the Cougar spindles can send you some pics. Ask who aligned the car and what were the specs the alignment shop used - bet you won't get an answer.


My Tbird sat for about 5 years (garaged) before I decided to put it back on the road as a driver. I completely rebuilt the stock braking system including the booster to factory specs. The system preformed flawlessly in normal city driving conditions - anything else was just plain scary. (rain, panic stops on the highway, descending long hills - the heat dissipation is bad ….VERY VERY BAD… in my opinion on the original drum brakes for hilly driving conditions). My son was in a wheelchair so I planned to pull a small trailer too which was another reason for converting to Discs.


The Squarebirds technical section leaves out many details on the conversion which will add lots of time to the project. It makes it seems like an easy install but it gets complicated in a hurry if you do it right and with a bit safety in mind.


Some things you need to consider are:
If you plan on having power disc brakes you need to change or modify the original booster to accept a disc/drum master cyl (this is for the one under the hood only - under dash are different) The original master cyl is NOT made for discs - it might work - I have even heard of folks bolting a two bolt
disc/drum master cyl on two of the four small bolts on the original booster - guess it depends on how brave you are and how good your lawyer is when you hit someone.
You'll need a combination or proportioning valve. You will need to have the tools to bend and flare brake line or pay a shop to do it. The flex lines probably won't fit the old hard lines so you have to run new lines - just as well because you'll need that brass junction block on the frame of the rear system. Plan your build to include the hydraulic brake light switch in the rear system or come up with a new way to make your brake lights work. Original Tbird wheels won't clear the calipers so you'll need Granada/Lincoln/LTD wheels (I used 14 inch LTD to keep the original hubcaps).
I thought about putting a different booster setup on my car but could not find one that didn't require drilling extra holes in the firewall. Master Power Brakes (Mooresville NC) has a Galaxie mounting bracket that you can use. (think that is what is in one of the pics here). It sat pretty close to the manifold though, you have to buy a different booster (their small double action) modify the pedal rod and drill two extra holes in the mounting bracket. It then accepts a GM master cyl - I had all those parts on my car but found the Ford booster setup and switched because I didn't have to
mess with the pedal rod length and finding the right diameter holes or worry about a GM master with Ford calipers etc.


ALL the modifications I made to my car can be reversed -
no new holes were drilled – it could be returned to a 100 point show car if I won the lottery and restored it that way – but I prefer driving it. The car stops great in all conditions and doesn't fade or pull. If had it to do all over again I would make the same changes except use one of the bolt on caliper kits that uses the standard front spindles (assuming I could keep everything else stock including 14 inch wheels). The reason I would use the original style spindles and bolt on kit rather than the Granada spindles is that Granada spindles have a different geometry than the original spindles so it steers and drives a bit different from original. You will have to find a good front end shop to align the car too – it took about 4 times in the alignment shop to get mine working and driving like I wanted. From the outside my car looks completely stock (that's what I wanted). I run the current equilivent of the original size 14 inch tires (Diamondbacks) but have LTD wheels to clear the calipers and the center hole is bigger on those wheels for the disc rotor clearance.


The cost of my conversion about 4 years ago was around $1100. The booster is a rebuilt stock Tbird booster with a different face that accepts the 2 bolt master cyl. Last I checked they are still available – let me know if you want one – they are not cheap approx $450.

Hope this helps – let me know if you have any questions. The Yahoo group lets you post pics for everyone to see (for free) - didn't see that option here so I'll work on uploading them to Dropshots.

Eric Taylor
Charlotte, NC
http://www.tbirdregistry.com/ft.asp
and
http://www.tbirdregistry.com/viewdat...tryNumber=5347

[KULTULZ]

...when you say "14 " wheels " you mean my oldies from '58 or ones from 79 or . . . ???

FORD increased the hub dia. in 1972. Either have the later rotor hubs turned down or use the later wheel(s) I mentioned previously.