Timing Marks

[flyinthermals]

On my 62, the manual shows the timing mark as a "O" that is supposed to line up with the 0,3,6,10 on the harmonic balancer. I do not see or have the "0" marking but have 2 "X"s instead. Which "X" would I use to line up to 8 degrees BTDC?

[jopizz]

You should have a raised dimple on the balancer that you can feel. That is your timing mark. The 0,3,6,10 pointer should be on the timing cover. Ford changed the timing setup quite a few times over the years. I'm assuming your motor is the original. Earlier FE models had the timing degrees on the balancer and just a pointer on the timing cover. Without seeing a picture I can't tell what setup you have. That being said I've never seen X's used as timing marks.

John

[flyinthermals]

Thanks John,

I will post some pictures. I have the pointer with the timing marks on the timing cover. The pointer at 8 is pointing at one of the Xs on the balancer. It seems to be running smooth there. I did see the raised dimple after all but it is far from the Xs(about 1/4 turn . With the car running and timing light pointing at the balancer if I rotate the distrib so the raised dimple is heading towards the numbers on the pointer, the engine bogs down and wants to stall. So I put it back towards the two Xs and plugged the vacuum line back into the distributor.

[jopizz]

Sometimes the balancer will spin and that's why the timing marks are off. There are a number of ways to find out where TDC is. You can also set the timing using a vacuum gauge. Retard the timing until the vacuum goes down. Then advance it until you get the highest vacuum then retard it slightly. If it pings when you drive it then retard it a little more.

John

[flyinthermals]

Here are the pictures. First time ever doing this and I do not own a vacuum gauges or compression gauges. They will be my next investments. You can see the first 0 on the pointer pointing at the second X on the balancer. The raised dot is about 7 inches around the circumference of the balancer. I tried to get a picture of it but it did not turn out. When I tried to bring that raised dot towards the pointer the engine tried to stall so I figured that wasnt the raised dot I was looking for. I will try again later. Must drive my sons to soccer practice.

[flyinthermals]

Hi John,

I was thinking what you said. If the dot spins is that called centrifugal advance and servicing the balancer is required. I thought I saw that raised dot bouncing back and forth when I was focusing the timing light on the Xs. Sorry I new to this and am just guessing. I will do some research when I get home.

[jopizz]

Centrifugal advance is something different. When the TDC timing mark moves it indicates that the rubber balancer has slipped. It's not uncommon. Other than replacing the balancer the only other thing you can do is find out exactly where TDC is and remark it on the balancer. Of course that doesn't mean it won't slip again.

John

[flyinthermals]

Thanks, I will have to look into this more.

[flyinthermals]

I had some time this evening and played around with the timing again. I started by slightly loosening the distributor bolt, and warming up the engine. I then checked the timing and found that the raised dot had reappeared but was a little ways off to the left of where it had been yesterday, and the two "X"s had disappeared. I pulled and plugged the vacuum from the distributor and with the timing light started to turn to the distributor clockwise until the raised dot on the balancer was around 8 BTDC. The engine sounds perfect. I took it for a drive and it never sounded better. At 70MPH it drove smooth and the roughness I noticed since I bought the car last year was gone. That was odd. Its like the rubber balancer slipped back into position bringing the raised dot back to it's proper position. I performed the same sequence today as I did yesterday.

Hey John,

I am going to purchase a vacuum gauge and do the testing you mentioned to ensure the engine is perfectly tuned now? I have the Pertronix 2 and flamethrower coil installed and want to be sure everything is running as best as I can make it. The possible slipping of the balancer has me questioning my recent success in getting the timing close. I will try to find now the vacuum numbers I will be looking for as I try to tweak the timing.

[jopizz]

That is strange. I've seen them slip but not go back where they were. However since it's running so well I can only assume that it's in the right position and your timing is correct. I would check it from time to time to see if it moves. A slipping balancer can cause other problems like a vibration at high speeds. When you originally timed it what was your idle speed. If your idle speed was too high there would be enough centrifugal advance to make it seem like the timing mark was off.

John

[flyinthermals]

Its funny you say vibration because that is the first thing I noticed at high speed that was gone. Before I would not take her faster than 60mph for too long. Something did not feel right. It was not a large vibration but almost like a noise vibration.

During the timing, I have no measurable reference but the engine, both times was certainly warm and the choke fully opened. The engine RPM at idle once warm was considerably slower. I guess she felt sorry for me with all the many hours I have put into her lately and decided to turn on her "self time mode" -----Shades of CHRISTINE

[simplyconnected]

Everything John said, I agree with. I only had one car that the urethane went bad on and it was a Tempo (four banger). This balancer rang like a loud bell being repeatedly whacked, at every light. At running speeds it was quiet. Turned out that the failed Tempo balancer was so popular that Murray's (now O'Reilly's) carried them in stock. The box had 'Ford' written all over it so their distributor must have bought hundreds.

I noticed that on all engines, the timing marks are stamped into the ring with urethane. The belt portion is always solid to the crank nose. So, whenever I find true TDC, I always mark the belt sheave by 'notching' it with a file, then I paint the notch yellow or white. The notch is unmistakable and it does not affect the belt.

The real solution is, you need to find true TDC. You can do this by removing one spark plug and replacing it with a 'piston stop', then carefully rotating the crank by hand until it stops, scribe the damper, rotate in the opposite direction until it stops, then scribe the damper and remove the tool. True TDC will be exactly between your scribe marks.

You can buy the tool but I make my own by gutting an old spark plug then weld a 1/2" X 2" piece of round stock (like from a kid's wagon axle) to the hex part. It doesn't need to look fancy but it must not move. That's why I weld it together. The cost is under a buck and it lasts forever. - Dave

[flyinthermals]

Hello Dave,

Thank you for the info. If you have time could you post a picture of the modified plug you made. I am having trouble picturing your MOD. Does it matter what piston I use to determine where top dead centre is? Sorry for the junior questions. I have lots of reading and learning to do.

[simplyconnected]

Right now it's raining and the garage is locked up. Tomorrow, I'll take a picture and post it.

The tool is easy. Simply knock all the porcelain out of a spark plug, then slide a 1/2" piece of round stock in, about two inches long, and weld it in place. Then screw the tool into #1 or #6 spark plug hole. (#1 and #6 go up and down together.)

[GeoffInCarlsbad]

Harmonic Balancer: How do I spin it?

Ok, so I too am trying to find TDC on #1. I too see the XX's on the wheel, but I have not yet found a raised bump/notch. With the motor in the engine compartment, how do I turn the harmonic balancer? I see some bolts there, but I am not sure to what I should put a wrench on to spin it?

Can someone post a picture or describe to me how that it done?