Re-curved Distibutor acting strange

[simplyconnected]

The old tanks are made of brass but the design is faulty.
JohnG's tank was split up the side, starting at the seam, from flexing. So, it wasn't the solder that let loose, but the tank itself.

As the tank pressurizes, the structure tends to deform into a sphere (a ball), peeling the middle seam back each time. This happens because equal pressure is exerted on all inside surface areas simultaneously. That means, if the top shell (~4"x6") sees 13-psi, then 24"sq. x 13psi =312 pounds of pressure and the bottom sees an equal 312 pounds. This increases dramatically if your radiator cap is a higher psi rating (new cars use 19psi caps). It's no wonder why these tanks leak over hundreds of heat/cold cycles.

Later model tanks featured 'ribs' which helped but didn't solve the problem. After careful examination and thinking about the design, one haunting question remained, 'how do I stop the flexing'?

I drilled three thru-holes (top-to-bottom) and soldered solid silica-bronze rods in place using close-fitting brass washers at the ends to distribute the surface area. Then I re-tinned the seam and damaged areas, and replaced the lead with silver-bearing alloy (mostly antimony and tin) which is 30% stronger than lead. No more bloating, and the seams are much happier with far less flexing. I'm showing as much reality as possible so I did not paint this tank:

(CLICK ON THIS PICTURE to see the whole web site.)

I leak tested it and sent it back to John many months ago and I haven't heard anything negative since. - Dave

[davidmij]

Dang Dave, you're like a cross between MacGyver and Einstein! You never cease to amaze me.

The last time I tried to solder a hole shut it wouldn't fill. I thought about taking the tank off, melting and removing all the solder and then wire wheeling it to the bare metal, then redo the entire tank. Seemed like way too much work so I opted for the old JB weld temp fix. It's held up great but now I have a small seepage from the seam. Maybe I'll coat the entire thing in marine epoxy!

[simplyconnected]

Oh, God Bless every hair on your head, Dave Jones. Now, all I gotta do is have you speak with Robin. Maybe you can convince her of this McGyver/Einstein status.

I've been trying to convince her for many years but she ain't buyin it. But hey, thanks for the complement. It's the best one I've had in awhile. - Dave

[JohnG]

I am happy to report that the Dave-modified tank works just fine after 1000 miles!

I was personally thinking of him more as the Feynman of Fords . . .

By the way, I too had a tank repaired by a highly reputable place in Buffalo. It lasted 50 miles before leaking . . .

Dave's approach wins because instead of applying the same old, failed solution, he thought through to the cause of the problem and addressed it. Wins all the time!

[davidmij]

I had to google "Feynman". Excellent kudos to Dave, John.

So back to the original thread at hand here. The doggone car runs like crap again today. Even sputtering and a little back firing.
wEirD
One more thing I noticed. The generator light comes on at low (idling) rpms. If I rev the motor the light goes out. I don't actually have a generator, I installed the alternator setup from the donor car - a 1967 LTD 390. I is/was a new alternator 500 miles ago.
The newer (correct) damper that the builder put on the motor has a smaller pulley than the one that was with the 390. I believe he said it had to do with the AC that the LTD had. Could that smaller pulley be the problem? Definitely less rpms for the alternator.

thx, Dave J

[simplyconnected]

Wow... first McGyver and Einstein, now Richard Feynman. I have a couple awards from Ford on my office wall but neither are quite as prestigious or complementary. John is the man, and often he doubles as my 'test guinea pig' for my new ideas. I don't have a Ford with an expansion tank and John had a couple broken 'spares'. I am happy to solve any nagging problem you guys have, especially if it means more trips for Mandy's Dairy Queen treats.

Throughout my life, I've been challenged by insurmountable goals. The name, 'David', is insuperable to live up to. Then, I learned my family was the first English-born in N. America (Virginia Dare). Dad's middle name is, Churchill and mine is Lloyd. These are our family names from Wales and are hard acts to follow.

Now, John likens me to a MIT graduate and Nobel Prize winning physicist. Well, there may still be hope because Richard Feynman died in 1988, and my ancestors are gone too, leaving some slots open as long as I'm still kickin'. Ha!

...Kind of strange again, but it's running crappy today. I went to check everything and found the distributor end of the distributor vacuum line had a little anti freeze on it. The over flow tank has a very slight seal leak and it's dripping onto the dizzy vacuum line. I pulled the line out and blew on one end and a drop of antifreeze came out the other end!..

Dave, don't mess around with this. Check your oil for antifreeze before your bearings are ruined. I would drain it into a pan and carefully inspect it. Replace with fresh motor oil, I don't care how new the old oil is.

We have all heard horror stories about how FE intake manifolds don't like to seal properly and how the coolant ports leak into the intake ports. I hope this isn't the case, but your engine is new and you don't want to harm it in any way.

Plug ALL your leaks as none of them are acceptable. Look for obvious faults, like spark plug wires arcing (inspect at night). Suspect fuel quality. Keep a close eye on your exhaust for any kind of smoke. Plug your vacuum line and re-check timing. Then, recheck your carb settings.

Damper pulley diameter and GEN/ALT lights have nothing to do with how your engine runs. In fact, if your idle speed is too low, I would expect your GEN light to shine. When I first put a 100amp alt on my Y-block, it squealed like a pig. Then I replaced the alt pulley with a LARGER one. That gave more surface area for the belt and it gave more 'lever' to turn the alt shaft more easily. Of course, the alt ran slower but that made no difference in performance. - Dave

[davidmij]

Thx Dave, I read somewhere that the FE intakes can have air leaks too. One guy said he re-torqued the bolts and his vacuum went back up. Do you know of any way to check the intake for vacuum leaks.

The oil seems good, but I'll drain it this weekend. The amount of antifreeze involved with the tank leak was super minimal. If it did draw any into the carb via the vacuum I would think it went out the tail pipe. HOWEVER, I will definitely take your advice and not run it again until I can change the oil.

I'll check the plug wires, etc in the dark after the oil change.

I DID re-fuel at a different gas station for the first time, and now that I think about it, it did start running worse after just a couple of miles of driving. Glad you mentioned that! But would that cause backfire?

One more thing. I've been setting the timing with the engine running around 580-600 rpms. I leave it there when done and drive it like that. Should I maybe crank up the carburetor fast idle screw to around 650 or higher after I finish setting the timing - you know, because of my cam?

On a side note, my mother is a Brit, and has Wales roots. And, I'm a David. However I am a scathing example of the Albuquerque school systems short comings.
;0)

thx, Dave J

[simplyconnected]

...I DID re-fuel at a different gas station for the first time, and now that I think about it, it did start running worse after just a couple of miles of driving. Glad you mentioned that! But would that cause backfire?...

Absolutely! You might get anything from a gas station.

Start there. If you have a temporary setup you can connect with a fresh gallon of gas, that might save you a whole lot of time and headaches.

As far as intake leaks, I run an UNLIT propane torch around where the intake and heads mate. If your rpms go up, you got a leak.

Don't let your idle lope. Set your timing at low rpm, then when done, raise the idle to about 650-700rpm.

Have you got a canister fuel filter? Those are the best kind. If so, unscrew it and look inside the can. It will give you an idea of what you're feeding your holley.

BTW, what octane are you using? Start high (93), and slowly mix lower octane until you can tell a difference. I would not buy full tanks of gas at first. A quarter tank is five gal's.

Yeah, I was the last of five and really never liked school until I realized the importance of education (and how dumb I really was). Mom was an Algebra teacher at my HS. When I told her I didn't want to go to college she said, "Then, that's the last place you should go." I **** near dropped my teeth. She said, if I didn't like school that I won't do well and I would simply waste my money and eventually drop out.

All her relatives were skilled tradesmen and very successful business owners. It was Mom, who encouraged me to find a trade because I enjoyed working with my hands. Mom was one of the smartest women I have ever known. God, I miss her...

[davidmij]

A car guy I work with asked me how my weekend went. I told him I spent it messing with my car and that I had it running pretty good, but then all of sudden it started running like crap. He said, "sounds like bad fuel to me".

The unlit propane torch is genius, thx!

Yes, I have an inline canister fuel filter. It was new 300 miles ago with the new motor. I'll check it.

The builder said premium 92 should run fine. The best they have here in my area is 91. I think I'll try 2 gallon temporary source can I have and use a gallon at a time. Then add octane booster in correct increments to see how it does. My compression is 10.5 to 1.

I never went to college either. The first job I had was working for a technical contracting company that bid and worked on all kinds of jobs, mostly government. Everything from pounding nails, to building electronic circuit boards. Worked with lathes, mills, painting, remodeling military vans inside and out, trailers, electronic racks, ALL one off custom jobs. Used every hand or machine tool imaginable. It was AWESOME. They went out of business and I got a factory job at GE. Yuck. It's been downhill ever since. Then a job here at Los Alamos National Lab doing computer desktop repair. Don't like that either, but I have just 4 more years and I can retire.
Thank god my kids are smart, and doing what the like! Must have taught them something right.

Dave J

[davidmij]

Update on what I tried today.

Thursday night I fired up the bird after work (in the dark) and looked for any arc's etc from the plug boots and wires - no problems that I could see. I also inspected them all this morning.

Today I drained the oil and inspected it. Looks very good.

I checked for leaks around the intake, and around the carb base using the unlit propane and found no problems.

Pulled the fuel filter. I was a little surprised at the pressure, and the gas that shot out. However blowing through it backwards showed nothing but clean gas.

Double checked the timing and reset it.

Everything seems fine.

Oh, and I also added an octane booster to the approximately half full tank.

Soooo, tomorrow I guess I'll buy a 1 to 2 gallon gas can and try to figure out how to rig up a temporary tank so I can make sure I don't have a tank full of crappy fuel. Do I need to have the fuel pump in line? I think that's a dumb question because I imagine it must need a certain amount of pressure.

Stay tuned........

[simplyconnected]

Dave, remember this?

...Start there. If you have a temporary setup you can connect with a fresh gallon of gas, that might save you a whole lot of time and headaches...

[JohnG]

Dave, tell us about your ignition system. Is it stock? If not, what got upgraded?

Have you taken a plug out to see what it looks like? There might be potential information sitting there. Also what gap are you running?

John

[davidmij]

Yes, I did Dave, as a matter of fact I made a list and noted all the things you said to check and went though them one at a time. I saved the temporary gas can one for last because I can't really figure out a safe way to hook up a temporary tank that I can run under a load - in other words, drive the car with the temporary tank in place. I think I have a relatively safe idea I'll try today though.

John, the system is stock but it's from a 67 LTD, not a 59 T-bird. I used all the stuff from my engine donor car. The dizzy is a stock replacement that was replaced about 500 miles ago. I inspected the dizzy cap and stock plug wires. It does have a Petronix point (non points) set up. I was thinking I would check the plugs also today. They are slightly glossy last time I checked and the gaps are all good, I believe .035? But I haven't inspected them since the problem started. I'll try to take pictures of them as well.

Thx guys!

[JohnG]

I would suggest at some point you get a higher output coil than stock (whether Squarebird stock or '67 stock). The coil should be compatible with the Pertronix (you might get one from them). You can never have too good a spark but you can certainly suffer from a weak one. If your engine is not stock (more compression or cam), all the more reason.

None of that is to say spark is the cause of your current problem necessarily. Just that good spark is always desireable.

I am curious as to what "glossy" means with regard to the plugs. If it is like "glazed", this is not good.

[simplyconnected]

Now wait a minute...
What's this in post #5?

...Secondly, I am using a Petronix ignition just like in your distributor section.
...

Good advice on the plugs, John. High compression engines with hot cams tend to foul plugs very easily. (That's another reason why we keep rpms high.)

I had a buddy back in the old days, with Duster 340. He stuck a cam in an already hot engine. Every week he was buying plugs, but the car was screamin' fast. - Dave