Pertronix revisited

[Guest]

Been looking at all the different posts/websites that talk about installing the Pertronix system. There are some questions concerning using the existing wiring(The 60 has built in resistor in the coil wiring)Some say you need a constant 12 volt line.

I was told that a generator did not provide enough "constant volts' to the system. I have heard that "beefing" up the ground wire is needed.(any pics on that, what gauge wire)

Had bad experience with one in my 56 bird but increased gas mileage is makng me reconsider.

How did everyone else wire it up? Any rewiring needed? Did you use the standard points coil. Are you running a generator? What problems have you had.

[tarps3]

RE: Pertronix revisited

I have it on my '60 Bird. Stock coil and generator and no extra wiring needed.
Just follow the instructions and it's really pretty easy. I've had it in for almost a year with no problems. Sure runs and starts good!

[Guest]

RE: Pertronix revisited

Same as tarps.... No additional wiring, easy to install and works great. Took about 20min to install.

[byersmtrco]

RE: Pertronix revisited

Both of our Birds have em. No hiccups as yet.

[JohnG]

RE: Pertronix revisited

you guys as a group could do some valuable research.

First, what coil are you using? If you still have the original Ford coil (with the mustard top), what can it be upgraded to and have the replacement work well with Pentronix? That Ford coil is the same thing that was on the 1928 Model A and it is pretty anemic. You want as much spark as possible, and that ain't it!

Secondly, if you want more horsepower and mileage, the spark plug gap needs to be widened. The stock .035" is quite small. How much can it be widened with what coil? There is no answer to this beyond what you determine from actual useage. You incrementally widen until you have trouble starting or running cold, then back off. If I had a Pentronix and better coil, I would take a shot at .045" and see what happened. Documenting gas mileage under near identical conditions would help, too.

Basically, running the original Ford coil with Pentronix is like having a perfectly gapped set of new points. It is, afterall, the coil that provides the spark. If you can upgrade the coil then some ignition gains beyond that are possible.

Upgrading the coil while keeping points has a limit as the additonal current from hotter coils eventually fries the points prematurely; end of game. The Pentronix gets you around this limitation.

One other question: do you guys have this set up with the ballast resistor or without? Whatever you report, you ought to add that. I know there was a post about a year or so on this topic but I have not tracked it down.

The ballast resistor (or high resistance wire for you '60 guys) was intended to drop the voltage to the ignition from 12 to 6 volts to prolong the life of the points. So the obvious question for a given Pentronix set up would be: do you provide it with 12 or 6 volts? I would be hoping for the answer to be 12 volts because I know that results in more voltage from the coil hence better spark, which is the name of the game. But not having done this, I don't know what has been done by people.



best
John
'58 Hardtop

[KULTULZ]

PERTRONIX

>One other question: do you guys have this set up with the
>ballast resistor or without? Whatever you report, you ought
>to add that. I know there was a post about a year or so on
>this topic but I have not tracked it down.
>
>The ballast resistor (or high resistance wire for you '60
>guys) was intended to drop the voltage to the ignition from
>12 to 6 volts to prolong the life of the points. So the
>obvious question for a given Pentronix set up would be: do
>you provide it with 12 or 6 volts? I would be hoping for the
>answer to be 12 volts because I know that results in more
>voltage from the coil hence better spark, which is the name
>of the game. But not having done this, I don't know what has
>been done by people.
>
>
>
> best
> John
> '58 Hardtop

The PERTRONIX and PERTRONIX II is designed to run directly from a 12V source (no resistor) but the coil is limited to 9V (through resistor). Plug gap should be .044" as in the DURASPARK applications (this is taking into consideration a full 12V for the ignition module (some do not go to the trouble of by-passing the resistor and the module runs on limited volatge and may not fire a large air gap).

Go here for a more in depth discussion of the PERTRONIX;

http://www.thelincolnforum.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=16882&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

[JohnG]

RE: PERTRONIX

when you say "the coil" do you mean something supplied by Pentronix or the stock Ford coil or...???

The .044 gap confirms my suspicion that an improved gap was possible - thanks!

[KULTULZ]

RE: PERTRONIX

>when you say "the coil" do you mean something supplied by
>Pentronix or the stock Ford coil or...???
>
>The .044 gap confirms my suspicion that an improved gap was
>possible - thanks!

John,

Go to http://www.pertronix.com/downloads/ignitor12vneg.pdf and scroll down to the second page. It has wiring schematics. I do not know of a FORD coil that will take battery voltage except the later TFI (E-COIL) coil. Even the later SSI/DURASPARK COILS were limited to 9V. Another sticking point is that unless the module has a 12V supply, it may not generate enough voltage to fire across an increased spark gap. It seems to be trial and error.

Some report it (PERTRONIX) runs well for them through the resistor, others it doesn't. I believe it mostly depends on how much of a charging system and battery reserve the vehicle has. Now I don't remember how the PERTRONIX coil is wired in. It may be a full 12V.

Gary

[Guest]

RE: PERTRONIX

Read the article from the Lincoln site and the mentioned tech article. My question is if you dont bypass the resistor wire and your voltage drops below 7.5 then you fry the module and have a ignition failure. With the lights on high beams and the defrost running and the radio on that generator is working hard to keep 12 volts.
Will a Ford coil take a constant 12 volt anyway? If you bypass the resistor the coil be getting a constant 12 volts. After reading the articles-If I drove the car everyday it would be a no brainer. But the limited "cruise time" I do makes me want to stay with the points and not worry about rewiring or ignition failure. Do the points change every years anyway.

[JohnG]

RE: PERTRONIX

I called Pentronix for the heck of it and discussed the Ignitor II, which is their newer and improved product. It has two features of possible interest: there is a microcontroller in it to adjust the dwell on the fly, and there is a safety shut-off in case you leave the key in the On position (keeping it from overheating as the earlier version could have done).

For $40 they sell a 44,000 volt coil which goes with it. Between the two items you can run a plug gap of .045". This is all set up with 12 V, no ballast resistor (according to the tech guy who I spoke with)

I asked him about the current draw of the coil and did not get a very informative response so that question remains unresolved.

The Ignitor II retails for $110 with a 30 month warranty.

I looked on MSD's website and one of their systems claimed to draw 7.5 amps. Since the solid state components draw little, I would assume the coil is requiring the bulk of the 7.5. I dont know if Pentronix' coil is comparable.

I also don't know, if that were the case, if my stock TBird generator based system has 7.5 amps to spare in a worst case scenario of the lights and heater fan on, for instance. Any comments from any of you who have put ammeters in strategic places would be of interest. What does the stock ignition draw for current, anyway? That poor ballast resistor does get hot!

John

[Guest]

RE: PERTRONIX

I talked to them also. They said on my car I should bypass the resistor wire and hook the module to a 12 volt switched line.The did say I should go with the pertronix coil. I agree the generator system would be hard pressed to keep up.
Without the "super" coil does the pertronix only provide limited advantages over the points performance wise. My big concern is dead on the road without a spare unit. Points are cheaper to get in the middle of nowhere then a new pertronix and a small file can bring some points back to life for a trip home. If I ever upgrade my motor with an alternator ect than I would consider them again but now I will keep the points and a spare set in the car.

[JohnG]

RE: PERTRONIX

I'm kind of where you are. I don't really mind points and consider maintenance of them as part of the old-car hobby. I only put about 2000 miles or so a year on the car and not much happens to them in that time. I also keep a spare set in the tool box.

That said, if I could pick up a couple of mpg with a substantially better system, I would do it.

At this point, the current draw of a better system is the unknown quantity. I have no interest in converting to an alternator if that is what it takes. At some point you start to realize you have re-engineered half the car...

What I have to do this weekend is hook an ammeter into the stock ignition system (my coil is aftermarket as the original fell apart but hardly a killer) and see what kind of amperage draw there is. If its 2-3 amps then I can see a possible problem. If its 5-6 amps then no problem. However a basic law of physics says there is no such thing as a free lunch, and it's pretty hard to imagine a high output system having a comparable draw to the modest stock system. The only glimmer of hope is the ballast resistor which, among other things, is purposely wasting alot of power (half, I would guess, since it drops the voltage from 12 to 6).

Anybody reading this use an MSD system?? I see them at car shows on the 60s muscle cars frequently.

John

[Guest]

RE: PERTRONIX

hi
back in the day, I ran stock coil, dual point accel dist. 428 cu, 3.10 rear way too much cam and a toploader 4 spd and got 16 mpg in a 1959 conv. the points lasted twice as long or better and it ran like a scalded ape.
later
mark
1960 conv.

[Rockin Kev]

RE: PERTRONIX

Hi,
Long time no posts, But i have a 430 Sunroof, i put it in with the Petronix COIL and the IGNITOR and the PETRONIX HT LEADS with a new carb overhauled kit fitted and the car all set up to run correct with the better setting on the new SPARK plugs it runs right! I have never had a problem, it runs better and starts better with great fuel consumption.

On past experience i will never use this system without using their (petronix) coil.
Kev.