It runs! now, questions.

[peeeot]

At last, I have started my car for the first time since I've possessed it. Overall, it went pretty well. No engine components were destroyed and ejected from the block. In fact, I didn't even have leaks!

I do have several questions though, now that the first and perhaps most stressful part is done.

1. The only real problem I had with startup was with the fuel pump. Eventually I got it to work by drawing fuel through it with a hose and then cranking. It works now, but on the side of it there is a little hole that squirts fuel out with a fair amount of frequency. It looks like this hole is supposed to be there. What is it for, and why is it squirting fuel all over the place?

2. The engine doesn't seem to run very smooth. Listening to the exhaust, one side makes a sort of chuffing sound while the other is quiet. Both sides will "putt" periodically, at random. I have set the timing and dwell angle within spec and adjusted the mixture as best I know how. My 1977 Malibu idled far more smoothly; I was expecting this car to idle like that one. Is this the difference between points ignition and electronic ignition, or??

3. My distributor vacuum advance doesn't seem to work. At idle, if I unplug the vac. advance line, nothing happens. The engine does not miss a beat. I can feel a very light suction with my finger on the end of the hose but that's it. Where do I look for the most likely culprit?

4. My generator light stays on. The whole time I ran my car, it was jumper-cabled to another running car. Replace, rebuild? What's the best route to take?

5. I set both floats carefully to the same level but my secondary venturis were slowly dripping fuel the whole time the car was running. What to check?

6. At idle, I could could not bring engine speed below maybe 550 rpm. Normally, if I adjust a car's idle screw out far enough, it will stumble and cut off. I couldn't do that with this car. Likely causes?

7. Warmed up, the temp gauge needle was around 65% of the way to the H. Normal?


Those are the major questions. I was a bit disappointed with how the car ran given all the new internal pieces and new ignition components, etc. but I hope addressing some of the things on this list will get it more like I want it. Thanks for getting me this far!

[JohnG]

RE: It runs! now, questions.

hi!
My two cents worth...

1) fuel pumps should not leak! if its old then maybe the diaphram is bad. If nothing else its dangerous. You might put a vacuum gauge on the other line from it and see how its doing. You would like to have 18" of vaccum available

2. It should idle smoothly, points OR electronic. But there are many factors involved. You want to check for vaccum leaks, bad plug wires and so on.

There may be a heat riser on the exhaust manifold on the right side and that needs to be opening and closing correctly or it will not warm up correctly. OR you may find a spacer only.

3. you might take the distributor off and see if things are rusted up or if some diaprham in there is old and falling apart. Also check and see if there is play in the shaft...they do wear out and the originals needed periodic lubrication which no one did. You can buy a new distributor in an auto parts store for short money if yours is gone. I found my timing varying by 5-6 degrees due to a worn shaft. Just grab it and see if you can move it side to side. Again also see if you have any vaccum to advance anything...

4. get an ammeter and a volt meter and see how the charging system is performing before you go any furhter. Is the light only on at idle or higher rpm?? A number of things could be going on here ...

5. needle valves not closing?? dirt in them preventing it??

6. linkage binding? distributor stuck somewhat advanced??

7. I would NOT trust the temp gauge! I can give you a number of reasons why, but it can easily read too low!!! Get your cooling system overhauled and calibrate your gauge. By "overhauled", take the radiator out and to a shop and get it flushed and tested, after you have flushed your own system. Put a 160 thermostat in. Make sure your temp sensor (on the front of the intake manifold) is grounded out properly and put a jumper to it to see if there is any difference. Be skeptical as the well-being of your motor depends on a proerly functioning cooling system.

All 7 of these opinions and 75 cents will get you today's newspaper around here. good luck!!

John
'58 hardtop

[Alexander]

RE: It runs! now, questions.

I have bought many rebuilt fuel pumps that leak. sometimes all that is needed is the screws need to be carefully tightened. Sometimes the gaskets inside the pump are dry and need to expand. Leave it overnight and see if it still leaks. I have had leaks disappear overnight.

These engines should run so smooth, you many not believe it is running except you see the pulleys turning.

A worn cam on the distributor can cause the car to run roughly. An electronic ignition eliminates this source of roughness.

The "putt-putt" you hear are probably exhauset leaks between the exhaust manifold and the head. Get copper gaskets to solve this problem.

Alexander
1959 Hardtop
1960 Golde Top

[Guest]

RE: It runs! now, questions.

And my 2 cents ... One reason you can't get the idle down is most likely because you still have fuel from the rear of the carb dribbling in.

[peeeot]

RE: It runs! now, questions.

Okay, perhaps I should specify some of the things the car has had already to paint a clearer picture of what's going on. The engine has all new bearings, new rings, a new camshaft, new lifters, and a new oil pump. When I took it apart there were numerous signs that it had recently been completely rebuilt. I had the crank checked and polished, and it measured perfectly for the first undersize, implying a fresh grind. The block was very clean and nothing looked abnormally worn or even hardly normally worn. Every component was cleaned and inspected or replaced.

The plugs, wires, coil, points, condenser, cap, rotor are all new. The wiring has been checked fairly thoroughly.

The radiator has just been recored. The thermostat is a 180 degree unit. My temp and fuel gauges were both calibrated so that the needle rests exactly at the bottom when it is at rest.

I am running the engine right now with nothing connected but the generator and a pcv valve that is on a hose to the intake and stuck in with a rubber grommet at the road draft hole. The exhaust has been done at some point (poorly) and the exhaust valve is missing.

1. I ran the car again today and the fuel pump is still leaking. I have tightened up the screws, but the leakage is not happeneing at the seals. There is a little hole in the body pointing towards the DS fender and the fuel squirts out of here. I visually inspected the diaphragm and it looked all right, but at this point all I can figure is that it has a hole somewhere and some fuel is going past it into the main body and squirting out this hole. No one else has seen this hole?

2. I thought the car seemed a little smoother today even though running cold. There was less putting. I'm glad to know that I can expect it to be smoother, though, because that means I know when to stop tuning I'm suspecting a vacuum leak or a PCV related problem but I'm not sure yet.

3. My distributor is clean inside and I lubed it as per the manual's instruction. The timing was very steady as I watched it. There is probably a little play in the shaft but it didn't seem excessive to me.

Checking vacuum is a good idea; I forgot I had a gauge! Where do I want to check? At the manifold? At the distributor? In my experience, leaving the vac. advance line unplugged should make a serious difference!

4. The light's burning bright all the time. Today I took the generator apart and discovered brushes that were stuck firmly in place and broken brush springs. I cleaned up the brushes and their housings so that they moved freely and fabricated some springs that seemed to do the job, even if just temporarily. They were rubbing against the commutator when I put it back in hte car, but still no charging. I'm in the process of checking out the output and the regulator. Gotta find an ammeter!!

5. The carb has been rebuilt and the needle valves are new and clean. So is the gas tank and the filter, and I've cleaned out all the lines too. I guess my float setting could still be incorrect, or, you think maybe the secondary throttle plate stop is set incorrectly?

6. I tried taking the linkage out of the equation altogether and I still couldn't stop the motor. The spark advance is happening too little if anything.

7. given what I said about the gauge's calibration, does it sound about right?

Alex-- I know I have some leakage at the pipe-to-manifold connection on the side that's chuffing (heard at the tailpipe). The putting I refer to is also heard at the tailpipe. You think it (the putting) could be from the fuel dribble?

Travlin--could be, but I'd think if that was what was doing it the idle would be more irratic. It's pretty stable, just not smooth. I mean, the engine visibly shakes here and there.

Thanks for all the input fellows!

[peeeot]

RE: It runs! now, questions.

I removed the fuel pump and found that the diaphragm has deteriorated quite a bit since when I looked at it before. Do any of the T-bird vendors sell repair kits for this, or am I going to have to get a new pump? It seems like a waste to get a new one when the body is in such good shape.

[Alexander]

RE: It runs! now, questions.

There are rebuild kits for the fuel pumps. You can also trade in your core for a rebuilt one at the local auto store. The replacements don't have the glass fuel bowl in the last few years because of the a new law.

You can connect the vacuum guage to the port for the the vacuum wipers on the manifold. That is the easiest connection.

Alexander
1959 Hardtop
1960 Golde Top

[peeeot]

RE: It runs! now, questions.

When you say trade in, what exactly do you mean? I checked with Advance and Autozone and didn't see any kind of core charge associated with the fuel pumps they sell. My fuel pump is already a replacement; it has no glass bowl.

[Alexander]

RE: It runs! now, questions.

NAPA always asked me for the core back.

Alexander
1959 Hardtop
1960 Golde Top

[peeeot]

RE: It runs! now, questions.

Oh, okay. I checked with them and they didn't have a listing for the pump with vacuum wipers anymore.