Nice, "low mileage" '58 HT on EBay...

[JohnG]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1958-Ford-Thunderbird-36-000-Original-Miles-Excellent_W0QQitemZ310160867122QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item4837073f32&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245

claims to have 36,000 original miles. What do you people think?? I am always skeptical since a) the odometers turnover at 99,999 b) that was 51 years ago so this delightful car somehow went 700 miles a year

John

[YellowRose]

Nice, "low mileage" '58 HT on EBay...

It is a nice looking '58! It looks to be a good buy for someone. Did you notice that the mirror is in a pretty good location in regards to it's position on the fender? It is not on the door, and further advanced towards the gun sight than at the beginning of the fender panel. It is not so far advanced that it would be in the way of someone working on the engine.

[simplyconnected]

...36,000 original miles. ...51 years ago so this delightful car somehow went 700 miles a year...

The sign of a good restoration is, it doesn't look restored.
Your second link was great, John. Which picture are you in?

Seals don't last 50 years, especially the stuff Ford used back then. This car is in Ohio. I'm in the rust belt too, so I seriously doubt the car's originality. I would have to see it in person to determine, for real. As for the mileage, it probably was driven for a few years by one owner, OR, when they did a major overhaul on the engine, they also pulled the odometer and reset it. So it may have, 36,000 original miles on a rebuilt engine (although this may be a stretch). Frankly, I would rather have a newly overhauled engine (using modern parts and gaskets) if it was done right. By 36,000 miles, any problems would have surfaced. - Dave

[Guest]

Hey Guys,
Go to Ebay and ask him!
Also go to Ebay and check out the 1960 Thunderbird item #150364992708. She needs some TLC, but she is a nice reasonable priced '60!!!
Richard D. Hord

[JohnG]

The motor pretty clearly has been out of the car due to the paint work on it...

we had a guy on here a couple years ago . . . Mark from Illinois... had a 1960 also in silver with 19K original miles...every photo was consistent with such low mileage.

The one here is in the TBird Registry http://www.tbirdregistry.com/viewdat...tryNumber=5604

turns out I submitted it last June as it was for sale then as well. Current owner has had it a few years as it was in PA in 2000.

Nice car in any event but I was curious as to what any of you thought. There is a current trend in car collecting towards unrestored cars but this is not one of them.

John

PS to Dave: I took all photos so no pix of me!!

[YellowRose]

Nice, "low mileage" '58 HT on EBay...

Regarding the '58 for sale, I also doubt it would be an original motor and mileage on that bird. It would have to be sitting in a climate controlled garage all these years and only taken out to drive on Sundays! That could very well be the mileage on an engine that was recently overhauled though.. Not a bad looking '58! The '60 is interesting also. He has the mirrors, but they are not on. Makes you wonder if it ever had mirrors on it. It probably did, but were taken off during painting and never put back on again.

[JohnG]

For the **** of it I sent the seller a question asking what records lead him to believe it had 36K original miles, as he had only been the owner for a fraction of its life (The TBird Registry shows a different owner in 2000).

I think if you are going to make such a substantially significant statement that has an impact on the value of the vehicle, you ought to be prepared to back it up. Heck, why not say Elvis drove it to jam with the Jordanaires only on Thursday nights once a month??

[Guest]

Hey John,
I though Elvis drove it to Woodstock
Richard D. Hord

[JohnG]

Memphis to Bethel, NY would have added some miles!!

I got a reply:

Ive owned it 5 years. A good friend in PA owned it for 15 years. He had purchased it from an acquaintence who owned it from the early 80's when it had 28K miles. A maintence log was kept from that time documenting mileage etc. Other than that I guess you have to trust people.


So... you're standing there in front of a car that is claimed to have 36K miles on it. What do you look for that distinguishes it from a good restoration with 136K miles, say??


john

[simplyconnected]

...I guess you have to trust people...

No you don't! As soon as he sells the car, THAT'S IT, he's done. Two words come to mind:
Buyer BEWARE!

Who lies more than a used car salesman? Then you should TRUST him? Hogwash. All he has to say is, "I didn't know that."

I bought my '55 Customline from a guy that swore it was original. When I replaced the broken glass, I found all kinds of overspray. When I prepared the fenders for paint, I found bondo in the usual rust areas. If I didn't plan on a total restoration, I might have been mad, but I'm not.

Just don't look me in the eye and lie about stupid crap. I hate a seller who misrepresents his product. They stay up nights designing ways to take your money.

Sorry for ranting. I just got done with a distributor who under quoted my order (which is real rare). He plainly didn't know the item he was selling. When I ordered ten, he quickly found every excuse to refund my $500 and back out of the deal.

I know my business, and I very carefully scrutinize what I buy. Many times, "what you see is NOT what you get," it's really a façade.
- Dave

[dgs]

When I got my '60 from Grandpa, I hoped the mileage was original, which wold have been 49K at the time. I was doubtful, though.

What proved it was an old gas station service sticker on the door jamb with a mileage at the time of some 86K. Well, there you go.

[bird 60]

When my T. Bird arrived in Australia in '94 it had 81,000 miles. After the 3 year total Roteserie Restoration plus fully rebuilt Engine, Trans, & everything else, the Speedo was reset to 0. I have a declaration paper witnessed & signed by a Justice of the Peace to verify. Since '97 after completion my Bird has clocked up 24,000 miles, averaging 2,000 miles per year. If the speedo wasn't turned back it would show a mere 5,000 miles. But what's to say that it really travelled 105,000--205,000--305,000 or more. Unless one has a Log Book it's hard to tell. We also have to remember that back then these cars were used as daily drivers averaging around 12,000 miles per year.

Chris....From the Land of OZ.

[JohnG]

This seller says there was a service log. If it still existed, that would be interesting evidence. Unfortunately it does not seem to.

I find it hard not to see any of these cars being used on a regular basis for at least a few years. They were marketted to middle class people who would have in turn used them as they were intended. So just from that, an easy 50K miles comes about. Maybe this is an oddball case. It can happen too.

So I am standing in a garage bay with the car and all day. I want to decide if it has 36K miles on it, or alot more. What do I look at? look for? Hmmm

He admits it has had paint work; no surprise and little to do with mileage.

If I could get inside the motor, the wear on pistons and so on would tell me alot. But I can't.

Then it hit me: the transmission. We have lots of discussions about this on Squarebirds. How does the shift lever move? How sloppy? How worn is the detent plate? That could provide some real food for thought.

or the front end. How sloppy is everything there? From underneath how original are the parts?

Exhaust system ? some of you guys claim they used no gaskets from the factory so absence of those would be a plus. But presence of gaskets would not necessarily mean high mileage; just repair of leaks.

ROT sheet under the back seat or carpet ?? a positive sign but not definitive.

The owner ? Is he a car dealer or owner? Big difference!! This particular guy seems an owner so that is a plus. Easy to tell from Ebay feedback sometimes

[simplyconnected]

There are a few 'tests' I use. We can pretty much tell if a car is sloppy. Over many miles the timing chain stretches, causing a terrible lag when starting from a light. New engines respond immediately. Clutches (like brakes) feel 'old' from baking and wearing, automatics get sloppy too.

I like the suggestion of using shifter linkage as a test. It's perfect, unless someone re-bushed. Same goes for tie-rod ends and ball joints.

Look at a front drum. Aftermarket drums will not have a Ford logo. If you can see the inside, 50k drums will look and measure different than 100k drums. Tooling witness marks will show if it was turned.

Pedal rubbers, thin steering wheel paint, ignition key marks on the dash, speedometer needle wave, driver seat or windlace wear, all can show evidence of mileage and originality. - Dave

[JohnG]

I like the pedal rubber idea!! Easy to check and totally unlikely to have been changed.