Wheel House repair

[Yadkin]

I pulled all 6 pieces of the front wheel houses (inner fenders) off my parts car the other day, cleaned them, removed the rubber parts, and started to wire brush. It's a tedious task. I need advice on some issues.

1. How best to remove the hard, textured undercoating/ sound deadening material? Some of the stuff just won't scrape off.

2. What to replace it with?

3. The rubber seals seem to be a magnet for dirt and thus corrosion between the panels. Instead of replacing this stuff, is there a better way to complete this assembly? I'm thinking of a polyurethane seam sealer, as used in metal roofing.

[Guest]

Ive been looking at doing the same thing, Id probably go with a product called miracle paint, clean all the flaking/loose material off, then miracle paint it, then use like a spray bedliner over that on the whole thing, doing 2-3 coats on the part you had to paint to get close to the same texture. I watched a bit about this on youtube, guy does it on a mercedes. Good luck. METALMOVER

[Yadkin]

What's "miracle paint"? Do you mean POR-15? I'll be using that on the rusted areas once I get the textured crap off.

I like the idea of using bed liner.

[Guest]

I was looking at POR-15 and doing some research on it and discovered miracle paint, like por, but seemed more like what I needed, its for what your talking about, easier to apply, less toxic, etc...

[simplyconnected]

A lot of restorers use those 'flap' type wire wheels to remove undercoat. It's still a nasty job so cover up.

POR-15 has a lot of knock-offs on the market. It's basically a water-based rust converter with a sealer. The phosphoric acid converts the rust (and turns it black) and the other part simply seals it, but not against UV.

The factory uses a sealant between spot welded pieces in some areas. It's a cream-colored goo that expands when heated in the primer ovens. One area that comes to mind is inside the cowl top, usually the type with dozens of louvers. Heaters usually get their fresh cabin air from the cowl top, far away from engine and exhaust smells. They use a 'hat' that allows air in but leaves and rain cannot get in. A guy simply squirts a bead of sealer around the hole in the lower cowl top and sets the hat on it. Next, spot welds squeeze and weld the two pieces together right through the sealer. Then, the upper and lower cowl tops are assembled and 'racked' for the assembly plant.

For restoration, I love truck bed liner. Especially the kind that is rubber-ized. It may be painted or not. It seals POR-15 better than anything else I've tried. ...anything to keep water and Michigan salt away.

[Yadkin]

I was looking at POR-15 and doing some research on it and discovered miracle paint, like por, but seemed more like what I needed, its for what your talking about, easier to apply, less toxic, etc...

A link would be more helpful...

[Yadkin]

A lot of restorers use those 'flap' type wire wheels to remove undercoat. It's still a nasty job so cover up.

POR-15 has a lot of knock-offs on the market. It's basically a water-based rust converter with a sealer. The phosphoric acid converts the rust (and turns it black) and the other part simply seals it, but not against UV.

The factory uses a sealant between spot welded pieces in some areas. It's a cream-colored goo that expands when heated in the primer ovens. One area that comes to mind is inside the cowl top, usually the type with dozens of louvers. Heaters usually get their fresh cabin air from the cowl top, far away from engine and exhaust smells. They use a 'hat' that allows air in but leaves and rain cannot get in. A guy simply squirts a bead of sealer around the hole in the lower cowl top and sets the hat on it. Next, spot welds squeeze and weld the two pieces together right through the sealer. Then, the upper and lower cowl tops are assembled and 'racked' for the assembly plant.

For restoration, I love truck bed liner. Especially the kind that is rubber-ized. It may be painted or not. It seals POR-15 better than anything else I've tried. ...anything to keep water and Michigan salt away.

Lots of the undercoat could be scraped off but some of the thicker areas are really on there.

So instead of expensive POR I can just use Coke, then wash and etch prime.

[simplyconnected]

...So instead of expensive POR I can just use Coke, then wash and etch prime.

Therein lies the problem...
Coke has low levels of phosphoric acid so you need a higher concentration or you will wait for weeks. "Must for Rust" or "Ospho" (at Ace Hardware) are good products. Some wheel cleaners also have phosphoric acid. I don't like CLR because it again is diluted.

Get all the rust off that you can. If you still have heavy rust, get in a well-ventilated area and use muriatic acid. Keep it wet. The hydrochloric acid in muriatic is toxic to breathe and it will burn you so wear eye and glove protection. When the rust is gone (it WILL be gone), rinse with plain water.

Before the area is dry, 'flash rust' will appear. This is what you use the phosphoric acid for. Put some on a rag and simply wipe the rust off, and let it dry. The metal will turn dark if you use copious amounts of phosphoric acid, which is called phosphorus.

Phosphorus (or parkerizing) will last about a year by itself. But as long as you keep air/water away, the steel will not rust. Look around your ball joints where grease is caked on. That area has NO rust at all and is exposed to the the most water.

My point is, if you start with clean metal and you repel air and water by using just about anything that sticks (truck bed liner is good, the military uses cosmoline), the area will not rust. If any rust is underneath your undercoating, it will grow and your undercoating will come off all by itself. Sometimes I dry the area using heat, just to be sure no water is in a joint or seam.

POR-15 is a water-based sealant that contains water-based phosphoric acid. See how they complement each other? I only use this stuff in areas I cannot get to, like inside door skins. Otherwise I remove all rust first, then I seal the area.

Classic cars have current running through the whole body. Do you want to stop galvanic reaction when road water is introduced? Run a copper ground wire and bond it to your metal in several places from front to rear. Tap off of the copper wire to ground the dash, electric windows, seat, convertible top, fuel tank, rear deck lid, backup, license, stop and tail lights (like modern cars do). That stops current from flowing through steel because current takes the path of least resistance. Copper can be soldered to steel but I normally screw it down with lugs for a tighter bond (with less resistance). Stop the 'fight' for current to flow through 50 yr-old spot welds and rust.

When you run your copper ground wire, you will notice that motors run faster and stronger and lights are brighter. - Dave

[jhuebner]

When I did the floor pans on my Karmann Ghia I used seam sealer and sprayed the floor with bedliner also made the car more quiet

[Guest]

I found it on youtube. Put in key words (preventing major rust) or theres a guy who tries 3 different ones key words (opinion on rust prevention products) the gent in the first one is promoting a website mercedessource.com I did find it on ebay though also under miracle paint..... haven't ordered it yet. I'm still trying to figure out all the dam vacuum lines..... (someone hacked into them....GRRRR) and yes I just got my Ford manual yesterday...

[Yadkin]

I like that idea Dave, running a copper ground loop. Now that the interior is out I could run a loop down one side, though the trunk, back around the other side and terminate both ends in the engine bay. Then run branches to the hood, fenders, doors and trunk lid. What gauges would you suggest?

[Yadkin]

I found it on youtube. Put in key words (preventing major rust) or theres a guy who tries 3 different ones key words (opinion on rust prevention products) the gent in the first one is promoting a website mercedessource.com I did find it on ebay though also under miracle paint..... haven't ordered it yet. I'm still trying to figure out all the dam vacuum lines..... (someone hacked into them....GRRRR) and yes I just got my Ford manual yesterday...

There are vacuum diagrams on this site. Also most vacuum motors can be found at Scott Drake by choosing the same year mustang parts.

[simplyconnected]

...What gauges would you suggest?

I suggest you run one bare #8 stranded copper conductor from the front of your car to the tail light housings.

- Dave

[Yadkin]

Should I bond the hood, fenders, doors and trunk lid?

[simplyconnected]

If you use a wire harness with a separate ground (like modern cars) then current won't travel through the body. Otherwise, yes. If your hood has a light that uses the body for a ground, then bond it. Doors with motors and rear deck lids with lights and the fuel tank have the same story.

Have you ever seen a car at the light where some lights go out and others come back on with the brakes? I guarantee this won't happen with insulated (plastic) lamp holders that include their own ground wire. Using a car's steel body for one side of the battery was never a good idea but it saved Ford's money on copper wire. Isn't it always about money? - Dave