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  • philgarvey
    Apprentice
    • Jul 21 2011
    • 42

    new brakes

    Hello squarebirds,
    I put a new brake system in my 59. Almost everything is new but the brakes are grabby. Is this just old technology or do you think I need to tweek something. I had my car on a lift and adjusted the brake shoes so that there is just a slight drag on the wheel as I turned it....did I miss something?
    phil garvey
  • cubbear
    Experienced
    • Nov 29 2008
    • 106

    #2
    did you put on new drums or have yours turned? should not be grabby

    Comment

    • philgarvey
      Apprentice
      • Jul 21 2011
      • 42

      #3
      I put the old drums back in. They looked OK, not grooved or anything.
      phil

      Comment

      • cubbear
        Experienced
        • Nov 29 2008
        • 106

        #4
        drums out of round or grease or something on drum dreive car and ride brake lightly see if it clears up

        Comment

        • simplyconnected
          Administrator
          • May 26 2009
          • 8779

          #5
          Are the Primary and Secondary linings on correctly?
          Member, Sons of the American Revolution

          CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

          "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
          --Lee Iacocca

          From: Royal Oak, Michigan

          Comment

          • jopizz
            Super-Experienced


            • Nov 23 2009
            • 8317

            #6
            I suggest having the drums turned. Regardless of how they look they're probably warped some after all these years. Can you pinpoint the grabbing to one or two wheels. If everything else is new and adjusted correctly I would start with the drums.

            John
            John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

            Thunderbird Registry #36223
            jopizz@squarebirds.org 856-779-9695

            https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

            Comment

            • Astrowing
              Experienced
              • Jul 22 2009
              • 478

              #7
              And check the diameter of the drums. They are only to be turned to a max of 30 thousands over. If they are over, you won't have acceptable braking performance and they will probably be different side-to-side because of arc differences between the linings and the drums. Mine were over especially on the fronts, and the performance with new drums is much, much better.
              Last edited by Astrowing; April 30, 2012, 09:10 PM.
              sigpic

              CLICK HERE for Jim's web site

              Comment

              • Jimz Bird
                Experienced
                • Feb 3 2011
                • 374

                #8
                Another thing you could check after you see that you have the primary and secondary shoes are in the right spot would be to pull off the shoe and see if it has the same "arch" as the drum.

                I have heard some shoes have to be re-arched to fit the drum.

                I don't know if you can do it but a brake shop or truck stop should be able to.

                Here is an interesting story from the Studebaker guys.
                Jim
                Jimz Greenie with a White Hat and Brown Guts (ZE-XG)
                sigpic

                CLICK HERE for Jimz web site

                Comment

                • simplyconnected
                  Administrator
                  • May 26 2009
                  • 8779

                  #9
                  Oh please, for GOD'S sake, do not pound on brake shoes. They are welded pieces of sheet metal, and reused many times.

                  Linings are brittle and pieces can chip or break off. There are two acceptable methods of arcing your shoes:
                  1. Go easy and let them wear themselves 'in'. It doesn't take long and you may need to adjust them frequently at first.

                  2. Use a machine to arc your linings by grinding them. It's a simple adjustable lever, 5.5" long, that your shoe attaches to. If your drums are larger than 11" diameter, they simply extend the lever to match, and pass the shoe across the grinding wheel. No pounding is necessary and the shoe will not distort.

                  As one post in Jim's article said, "You still see old arcing grinders in the corners of some old shops."
                  Member, Sons of the American Revolution

                  CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                  "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                  --Lee Iacocca

                  From: Royal Oak, Michigan

                  Comment

                  • philgarvey
                    Apprentice
                    • Jul 21 2011
                    • 42

                    #10
                    thank you all for your input. The internal parts are put in correctly....I remember the brake poem...fat in the back, junk in the trunk...silly but I had to recite it to myself before assembling the shoes and hardware. Anyway I think I will check into arcing the linings as suggested.
                    phil

                    Comment

                    • cubbear
                      Experienced
                      • Nov 29 2008
                      • 106

                      #11
                      brakes

                      I have never rearched any brake shoes on many cars and trucks on this old car I think you probably need drums

                      Comment

                      • KULTULZ

                        #12
                        Arching of brake shoes is old technology. It not only removes brake pad(s) material but also releases some bad elements into the air. The quality of the actual shoe (trueness @ relining) also has an effect. Pad material is also another factor, as in quality of materials chosen. There are (were) oversized pads offered for machined drums. Of course with disc brakes becoming more common, many techniques and parts availability once available no longer are.

                        Simply put, throwing a set of cheap PEP BOYS brake shoes onto an unsurfaced brake drum(s) is not going to give desirable performance.

                        1) Purchase a good set of rebuilds (or specialty shoes)

                        (FORD used riveted shoes as they offer a heat sink)

                        2) The drum(s) have to be checked for surface condition/out of round

                        3) Backing plates should be checked for trueness and the raised pads the shoes ride on must be flat (no grooves for shoes to hang) (lubricate with brake grease)

                        4) Wheel bearings have to be serviced and torqued properly

                        5) Hardware should be replaced (heat fatigue)

                        6) Hydraulics should be inspected closely and at the least perform a fluid change

                        Now-

                        1) Hang the shoes and hardware and adjust out just enough for drums to be installed easily

                        2) Adjust the shoes completely out until they are locked against the drum(s)

                        NOTE- If equipped with self adjusters, make sure you know how to override before outward adjustment to allow you to back the shoe adjustment off

                        3) Loosen the adjustment so that you can get about a half turn of the wheel with a firm rotational push

                        4) After all drums are adjusted in this manner, push the brake pedal down to center the shoes on the backing plate and within the drum

                        5) Recheck adjustment per 3)

                        6) The car most likely will need another adjustment within a few weeks as the pads seat to the drum (same diameter) (even with functional self adjusters

                        7) You then go to a periodic brake adjustment (service) or the self adjusters should keep up with pad wear at this point.

                        Comment

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