rear control arm removal and installation.

[Guest]

Hi all, I'm currently in the process of starting to repair my rear control arm upper nuts on my 58. (The ones inside the chassis rail).
Now my concern is the safest and best way to remove these. I've rebushed the whole rear of the car and after installation I noticed that there's almost zero travel in the rear.
It wasn't until I cut from insidet he car I noticed the bolts had broken the nuts.
Should I loosen all the suspension bolts before starting this repair or will just loosening the control arms be ok.
Sorry, long winded question, just don't wreck anything or worse, seriously injure myself.
Cheers Chris.

[simplyconnected]

Chris, the design is horrible. Notice Ford dropped it real fast and didn't go back to rear coil springs for many years.

After carefully looking at the design, I would leave those two 'clappers' with nothing inside. No urethane and no bolts. When the 'clappers' are tight, they restrict the upper rods and nuts in a way that wants to snap them off.

The best way to see this is by putting the car on jack stands, then watch as you raise the rear axle. It's best if you disconnect the springs so you can see the whole range of motion.

You will see that tightening the 'clappers' binds the axle. This makes the car ride like a rock. If you roll over a speed bump, (or something violent like that) it might also break those forward arms.

I have never seen such a terrible design. If I owned that setup, I would get a torch and cut those clappers off altogether. Then, it would resemble a common trailing arm axle. - Dave

[Guest]

Your not wrong Dave, the design is horrible.
As you noted about breaking the upper control arm mounts inside the rail.
I'm actually going to weld a 1"x1" tapped steel Billet inside the rail for extra strength now I've seen there's enough room to do so.
Now with the rear clappers as you call them, would it actually be possible to run without the insulating Bush installed.
I'd be open to any suggestions, as it sits now I've basically got zero suspension travel, which it had plenty before the new bushes were installed.
Thanks Chris.

[Dakota Boy]

Anders on this site has been through this mess with his '58. He has some posts with lots of photos on this topic.

My '58 had leaf springs installed already when I bought it.

[simplyconnected]

Yes, Anders and I discussed this at length.
Beefing up the bars does not remedy the problem. It only makes the suspension more rigid.

As I described, you can see the range of motion if you leave the urethane biscuits and bolts out of the clappers, remove the springs and use a floor jack to bring the axle up and down as you watch.

Anders had super-soft biscuits made, which he was satisfied with. I look at that, and designs from other trailing arm axles, and I wonder why this axle has the clappers at all! Shock absorbers dampen any bumps and they provide the lower limit of travel (axle hang), not those stupid clappers. The arms are simply there to keep the axle square. They should offer NO resistance to travel. - Dave

[RustyNCa]

Anders on this site has been through this mess with his '58. He has some posts with lots of photos on this topic.

My '58 had leaf springs installed already when I bought it.

How hard have you looked under the rear end? I have been tossing around removing my stock 58 rear end and fitting a full late model Cobra GT rear end in it's place. I need to do some serious measuring first to see how it would sit back there, something I plan to do in May or so.

I have a few to choose from..

[Guest]

I've been over the anders thread quite a few times and unfortunately it doesn't go any further than the really stiff rear end.
I basically followed the entire thread when I was reassembling my rear.
My idea of beefing up the inner chassis rail mounts is really only so in the future it doesn't break the mounting nuts again in the future.
I remember when I originally put the rear back in watching the way it travels before going ahead and putting the springs back in.
The other option could be to put the old squashed insulators back in and see if that makes a difference.
Obviously I expected everything to be quite stiff after replacing every bush but not this stiff.
Barely enough travel to get the back wheels on with a struggle.
**** I wish I was building this car in America, leaf springs would of been in place a long time ago.
Thanks Chris.

[RustyNCa]

I've been over the anders thread quite a few times and unfortunately it doesn't go any further than the really stiff rear end.
I basically followed the entire thread when I was reassembling my rear.
My idea of beefing up the inner chassis rail mounts is really only so in the future it doesn't break the mounting nuts again in the future.
I remember when I originally put the rear back in watching the way it travels before going ahead and putting the springs back in.
The other option could be to put the old squashed insulators back in and see if that makes a difference.
Obviously I expected everything to be quite stiff after replacing every bush but not this stiff.
Barely enough travel to get the back wheels on with a struggle.
**** I wish I was building this car in America, leaf springs would of been in place a long time ago.
Thanks Chris.

Wouldn't another option be to convert it over to a triangulated four link with coil-overs or bags? Or maybe a GM style truck arm setup. I imaging the local to me HotRods to **** guy could come up with one.

I can tell you, the rear end in my 58 is for certainty not stiff....thing is terribly loose and bouncy

Cheers
RustyNCA

[Guest]

Rusty believe me, it's been discussed before with my mate who's been helping me.
Unfortunately here in Australia the modification laws make certain things very hard to do much without getting thousands of dollars down the tubes in engineering costs, basically once things like that are started every step needs to be signed off and paid for. Expensive process.
Haha my rear was like that, now I can sit in the trunk and it barely moves.
It may end up being ok to drive like that but if I can't change a tyre without a struggle it's going to be a nightmare.

[simplyconnected]

...the rear end in my 58 is for certainty not stiff....thing is terribly loose and bouncy...

Exactly... That's how it needs to be in order to have full range. And when it does, there are no issues with broken parts. The drawback is, it sounds real bad at every bump in the road.

In one of Ander's last posts, he thought the new urethane was too soft. That tells me it was almost nothing. He assembled it anyway and said it's good. That was the end of his story.

I will say this once again and no more; fix the broken parts and run with NO rubbers in the clappers, for free range of motion without binding.

Let the shocks cushion the ride. If you want stiffer, then buy heavier shocks, like for an SUV. The shocks on our fordor Galaxie are meant for a Cadillac Escalade. The larger piston and body diameters tame the roads into an excellent ride. Not mushy and not 'Mustang stiff'. - Dave

[Guest]

That sounds like a plan Dave. I'll fix the broken parts, remove the rubbers and see what happens.
Are you talking about still bolting the clappers together without the insulators.
Apart from this, car actually starting to look good and almost ready for the road.
Cheers.

[RustyNCa]

Rusty believe me, it's been discussed before with my mate who's been helping me.
Unfortunately here in Australia the modification laws make certain things very hard to do much without getting thousands of dollars down the tubes in engineering costs, basically once things like that are started every step needs to be signed off and paid for. Expensive process.
Haha my rear was like that, now I can sit in the trunk and it barely moves.
It may end up being ok to drive like that but if I can't change a tyre without a struggle it's going to be a nightmare.

Ah, I forgot about the trials you all have if you modify stuff. Here in California, well, on an old car, you can run almost anything without fear of a governmental eye to approve it as safe.

As long as the title is 73 or older, you can almost do anything without overview, not sure that's a good thing tho, you should see some of the horrible stuff I see at car shows. Welds that look like popcorn on front a arms and endlinks(some my 3 years could do better I think), plumbers tape holding suspensions together, some very scary stuff.

Imagine my little coupe down your way.... custom chassis, suicide 40 Ford deluxe front axle with Buick drum brakes, running Triumph TR-5 lever shocks, a Ford F-100 steering box with an Oldsmobile steering wheel. Rear end is a bagged four link international dana 44 all powered by a Chevy 400 small block with 6 1930s stromberg 97s.... Bet she would give your inspectors heartburn...

[Guest]

Yeah mate, it's not fun. Depending on how deep your pockets are dictates really what you can get away with.
And it's only getting worse.
I guess it takes a lot of the death traps off the road but also makes it very difficult to improve the safety of these old cars.
Even the addition of disc brakes and rear seat belts will be heavily scrutinized.

[Yadkin]

If it's under the car, how is GovCo going to know?

[Guest]

Every car needs to be signed off by a registered roadworthy tester which includes photo records before the car can even be registered for road use and issued plates.
Pretty much every second car event we attend these days will have some form of police/inspector waiting to check that cars are in order.
Unfortunately it's just not worth the risk.
Once the car has been issued an unroadworthy sticker things get a whole lot worse.
Victoria, the nanny state unfortunately.