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  #1  
Old 09-24-2018, 04:48 AM
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Default Tight camshaft bolt

Hi all
Picked up a new cam last week, when I went to screw the old sprocket bolt in (so I didn't lose it !) it felt very tight, sort of two turns and then felt like you wouldn't want to go much further as it would strip the threads. Bare in mind that I was holding the cam in my hand so I couldn't put the bolt in with a huge amount of torque. I cant believe that ford would have changed the thread between the early 352 and later 390. Anyone else have a similar issue ? One possible cause I have just thought of is that the thread in the cam may be gummed up with the thick grease that they coat the cam in to protect it while its on the shelf. A squirt with degreaser and an air line may help.
Any thoughts ?

Jon
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  #2  
Old 09-24-2018, 05:15 AM
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What year engine is the new cam made for? Ford made huge changes over the years so be a lot more specific in your description.

The Shop Manual offers a procedure for installing the cam. There should be a lash tolerance as well. I'm not aware of more than one cam bolt over the years. BUT... did you change from a 'button' to a thrust plate|? What timing set did you buy? Did you use the spacer?

Understand that this is a guessing game without specifics. There is nothing wrong with retrofitting a more modern cam, like a roller into an early block but the right parts must be used. - Dave
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Old 09-24-2018, 05:54 AM
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Hi Dave
Its a 1960 352 that originally had the thrust button cam.
The new cam is a comp cams 33-224-3
New timing gear is Cloyes C-3029-X with the spacer cast into the gear.
I have a camshaft thrust plate ready to drill and tap the block. The thrust plate fixings are proving difficult to find over here.
Would be nice to walk into a Summit or Jeggs store to pick up bits but we have to be a bit more patient when it comes to ordering bits.

Jon
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  #4  
Old 09-24-2018, 11:19 AM
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The two original O.E.M. thrust-plate retaining fasteners (sorry, not available at Summit or Jegs) were of 7/16" x 14 thread approx. 5/8" in length w/ lock washer, w/ modified Fillister style w/ Phillips drive head. Note that adequate tread engagement may not be available for the original fastener due to the inside diameter counter-sunk relief machined into the face of the block at the galleries to accept the welch plugs.

Also note, if using a non OEM fastener, pay particular attention for sufficient clearance to timing chain gear! A reduced 12-point fastener head, presenting a somewhat smaller outside diameter (as compared to say a 6-point hex)may be shortened (some), and/or the timing gear can be chucked in a lathe, and a relief/clearance cut made to provide adequate clearance on the offending surface.

Also be attentive to the oil gallery passage to the distributor gear & pilot shaft as this may limit the acceptable under-head fastener length.

As far as the camshaft to gear retaining bolt, always establish the proper fastener thread pitch of the new aftermarket unit, as it is not unusual for these manufactures to adopt non O.E.M. dimensions.

Scott.

Last edited by pbf777 : 09-24-2018 at 11:38 AM.
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  #5  
Old 09-26-2018, 02:13 PM
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Comp cams doesnt make a cam for the pre 1965 block with the buttom. I know because i had to get a later engine. I would suggest you look it up for yourself but thats why i didnt rebuild my 1959 352 the only cam grind is oem.
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  #6  
Old 09-26-2018, 02:55 PM
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I realise that you canít get the original style cam thatís why Iíve got a cam for a later engine and modifying the block to take a thrust plate. Seems to be a common mod.
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Old 09-27-2018, 05:23 AM
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Maybe these posts by our founder, Alexander, from over 15 years ago will help:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander View Post
In 1963, the cam retention system was changed from a simple thrust button to a thrust plate. The two systems do not interchange. The timing gears are different for these two systems. There also appears to have been two different spacings of the dowels for the camshafts using the thrust button. They also do not interchange.

The pre-1963 engines can be tapped to allow them to use the thrust plate.

Pre-1963 performance cams are virtually non-existent now.

Alexander
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander View Post
It would be difficult to find a performance camshaft for the pre-1963 thrust button camshaft retention system. They are available for about $150 from many Thunderbird part suppliers. I warn you to get the timing gear as a set with the camshaft, since there are apparently two different spacings of the interlock peg. I bought a new camshaft to replace the used one on the rebuilt engine I had, but the camshaft would not fit the new timing gear that was on the engine. Frustration.

The engine can be machined for the post-1963 thrust plate system. This system uses a camshaft with a different face than the thrust button type of camshafts. The timing gears are also different.

If you go for the thrust plate system, a wealth of camshaft options are available to you, including the ones from Carroll Shelby. They also have a large amount of FE parts that fit our engine that are hard to get otherwise. I bought a damper spacer and block to head dowels from them. These are new parts that are next to impossible to get elsewhere. http://www.carrollshelbyent.com/engine_order_form.cfm .

Steve Christ's book on rebuilding FE engines is an excellent reference for doing any work on these engines. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...48742?v=glance

Alexander
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The prices have changed but just about all this information still stands. Newer products have come about. I use a 'true roller' timing set with the newer cams (including hydraulic roller cams). They last 3X longer and are inexpensive. Here's a set for $46. from Summit.

EDIT: I looked up part numbers for you. These are for 1964 and later FE engines:
Cam Bolt - 371643-S (7/16"-14 X 1-1/8") also use a lock washer and I use Loctite blue.
Thrust Plate - C3AZ-6269-A
Thrust Plate Screws - 380041-S (7/16"-14 x 5/8") also use lock washers and Loctite blue.
If you can't find original Phillips-head screws, I substitute button head cap screws because a hex head will scrape the back side of the cam sprocket. Don't forget Loctite.

As always, when assembling your cam and all the parts, rotate it. Check for end-thrust and bearing 'feel'. Then, install the chain. - Dave
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Last edited by simplyconnected : 09-28-2018 at 01:55 AM.
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Old 09-27-2018, 05:55 AM
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Dave

If I'd thought about it sooner I would have taken some side by side photos of the original & new camshaft and timing gear. Without the assistance of people like yourself on this site I would have been completely stumped when it came to the camshaft portion of the engine rebuild. I'm just waiting for a pair of NOS thrust plate screws to arrive from the states (there's an invoice I don't want to leave laying around at home..!!) and then the short block assembly can begin. I may have got ahead of myself slightly by buying a tin of engine enamel in anticipation....and yes, its going to be blue not black. The purists wont like it but when its your hard earned cash going into it you do what you want not what somebody else expects.
I mentioned the tight bolt when I dropped the camshaft off yesterday. The engineer didn't seem that bothered, seen it many times before where the thread is gummed up with the coating applied at the factory. The will chase and clean the thread.
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Last edited by mh434 : 09-27-2018 at 06:04 AM. Reason: Forgot the main point ..!
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Old 09-27-2018, 10:05 PM
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Ok, I looked at the parts you bought. The cam is good and I'm sure you will love it. The timing set is suspicious. That timing set is not for an FE. It is for a truck engine (F-500). I think you should send it back and order the one I suggested. If you have problems, I can ship it to you.

A flood of questions and issues popped in my head about your build. Will you be doing the assembly? Do you have tools to do this? Are you disassembling your rocker shafts for cleaning? What are you doing for lifters? Are you installing new valve springs? Are you doing oil modifications? Do you have a degree wheel? Are you buying new pistons, rings, bearings, gasket set, etc? What compression ratio are you looking for?

Can you weight-match your pistons?
Can you weight-match both ends of your connecting rods?
Can you weight-match the pistons AND rods as an assembly?
(This is the order in which it should be done.) None of this work takes extra money but it does take time. It's best to do it yourself rather than to pay for someone else's time.

After the piston/rod/rings/bearings are bolted together, Do you have a place that can dynamically balance your crankshaft? I do mine WITH the flex plate and damper pulley ON the crankshaft.

Why all the detail? Because the machine shop needs to change the geometry of your casting by shaving the surfaces flat AND your new pistons will be larger and probably heavier. That's why the balance guy needs an example of your piston assemblies with all the parts attached. - Dave
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Old 09-28-2018, 02:32 AM
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Dave
Just a quick reply on the timing gear set. Summit have them listed incorrectly for a truck engine. I checked on the Cloyes website and it confirms the 3029 is for an FE.
Iíll respond to your other points later.

Jon
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