Oil Pan Change

[dgs]

I did an oil change on my T'bird a few weeks ago in preparation for the season and found that the drain plug did not want to tighten up. It looked like a self tapping plug (threaded end split two ways and bent inward) so I was concerned about it once I took it out. This is my first time doing the oil change myself, in the past I've had a shop do it.

It had been dripping before, but now it drips quite a lot. I have a drip pan under the car for now and I'm not driving it until I get it sorted. I haven't had a chance to get back under it to investgate yet, but it seems that either the threads on the plug, the pan or both are messed up.

Assuming that is true, my inclination is to buy a new pan and swap it out. That'll let me clean my pickup screen and replace the pan gasket, which may be leaking as well (my engine leaks a lot).

My question is, any tips on changing the pan? Shop manual calls for draining coolant and disconnecting the upper radiator hose, presumably because the engine must be lifted. Is that truly necessary? Do I need an engine hoist, or is there a way to lift the engine without it? Obviously, wood under the pan and a floor jack works, but doesn't really apply when you're changing the pan.

Thanks in advance.

[JohnG]

I had to take the pan off to clean the screen.

I got by with a floor jack and a bottle jack as I recall (this was 2003 or 4)

Did nothing with the radiator.

Unhooked the two motor mounts and lifted the motor up enough to put some 2x4 pieces in between the motor and the mounts. Think I cut them U shaped.

I recall there is a nice but small,flat boss in the front on the left. near the filter. I put a bottle jack under it. Believe I had the floor jack under the tranny.

Now . . . getting the pan off required, for me, carefully turning the crank a bit to position the counterweights so the pan could get by them. Play it by ear.

Goal is to get the pan off with as little lifting as possible. That allows for disconnecting less things like the radiator. There is also a point where the tranny hits the body so you go no further no matter. Did not get that far.

As I recall, Casey Tarp at the time used the same approach on his '60.

Reinstallation: I used RTV and let it cure 24 hours before adding oil or running. The bond was so good I could have gotten by with no bolts! ( a year later I took it all apart to rebuild the motor and saw the quality of the seal).

All this is subject to 15 years recall so the details might be suspect but in general it went well.

Not only did I get to clean the screen and pan but found someone had trashed the inner tray, probably so they could get it off faster at some point.

Never know what you will find - - an adventure!

John

[dgs]

Thanks, the shop manual does mention rotating the engine to clear the counter weights.

Busy week and weekend ahead, I hope to get a look at it after that.

[Woobie]

We bought a replacement oil pan. The specs said it would fit. They were right. It would fit, however, the rear section of the pan, above the steering linkages was 5/8 inch deeper than the original with stripped drain bolt hole. The extra 5/8 brought the clearance under one inch at the steering. So the old one was hammered out and the drain bolt hole repaired.

On edit: The cooling fan was removed to prevent smashing against the shroud.

The original pan was beefier than the replacement.

The oil pump was removed and dropped inside the oil pan to allow complete removal of the oil pan.

[dgs]

Well, here I am a year later and finally getting to this. I have gotten the car up in the air, removed the upper radiator hose and lifted the engine and put 2x4 pieces under the mounts. I dropped the pan and it slid right out, I did not need to remove the pickup.

I did not drain the coolant when I disconnected the upper radiator hose. The expansion tank was empty from sitting for a year, so there was no need. The radiator, however, was full. Over the years, I would have to add a fair bit of coolant each spring when I fired it up each year. Actually, I cannot be certain that the coolant level was full when I parked it, come to think about it.

I found a fair bit of sludge at the bottom of the pan plus a small amount of antifreeze. The coolant concerns me a bit, obviously.

There was a lot of coolant mixed with oil in my catch pan under the car. Remember, the drain plug did not seal and much, but not all, of the oil had leaked out into the pan. It's not clear if the coolant came from an external leak, or from inside the pan.

The oil that did drain out when I removed the plug was a very dark, silvery gray. I would assume that any coolant that would have leaked into the oil would have laid on top and not gotten mixed in as the engine has not been run since I parked it a year ago. Since there was still some oil in the oil pan, I would also assume that the coolant in the catch pan on the ground likely came from an external leak, rather than from inside the pan.

The bottom of the engine is filthy, coated in at least oil, maybe transmission fluid and coolant. I've known that it was a leaker for a long time, so this doesn't surprise me. There is also evidence that the pan gasket was not sealed well. There was wet oil left on the block after I dropped the pan, plus the pan fell off the engine, indicating to me that whatever sealant was used when it was put on gave up a long time ago.. I think it has contributed to the oil on the engine, but is not likely the only source.

The old pan has the drain plug on the driver's side in a protrusion that sticks down below the rest of the pan. The new pan (from Thunderbird HQ) has the drain plug on the passsenger side in a recess. The internal baffling is different as well.

Questions:

1. Could the fast that the expansion tank was empty but the radiator full point to an internal engine seal that would allow the expansion tank coolant to drain into the pan? It would seem likely. If so, what is the likely culprit?
2. Is it possible that the small amount of coolant I saw in the pan came in from an external leak through the faulty pan gasket?
3. How do I diagnose where this coolant is coming from?

There's part of me that looks at all the leaks, the coolant in the pan and more and simply wants to rebuild the engine / have it rebuilt. On the other hand, it runs well, starts easily with few issues but the leaks and a slight passenger side exhaust manifold leak and running hot in temps over 85. Or at least it did the last season I was able to use it regularly (3 years ago).

The engine really needs some attention, at the very least to figure out what's leaking and where. My inclination at this point is to finish the pan job and run it for the remainder of the summer, keeping an eye out for white smoke and leaks. Get a compression or leakdown test done to determine the internal condition of the engine and decide what to do next at the end of the summer.

Sorry for rambling, any thoughts on how to proceed?

[jopizz]

Antifreeze in the pan is a sure sign of either a bad head gasket, intake gaskets or a cracked block. You really need to do a coolant pressure test as well as a compression test. This will tell you for certain if you have an internal leak. I've never seen an external coolant leak find it's way into the engine. The silvery color of the oil is a tell tale sign of an internal coolant leak. Driving the car with an internal coolant leak can do major damage to the engine that may add a significant amount to the engine rebuild if that's your plan. You can always just take a chance and replace the head gaskets and intake gaskets and see if that fixes it. If it's a cracked block then it's not going to matter anyway. While you have the heads off you can repair the exhaust manifold leak much easier. If the engine runs well that's what I would do.

John

[dgs]

Yeah, the idea that it's an external leak making it's way into the pan is probably wishful thinking. Although, I do think I have a couple weeping freeze plugs, which would run down and gather on top of the oil pan flange and perhaps, but not likely, get into the pan that way.

I've put a munch pf photos in a Google photos album, here:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/h8CBAxRk2MqJy11U9

There's a couple of images of the oil that came out of the pump on the garage floor (one with an unfortunate green reflection of the tree outside my garage). It looks pretty normal to me.

There are a couple of the new and old pans side by side and a bunch looking up in the engine. Not sure if they tell anyone anything or not.

I'm going to pick up a coolant pressure tester and see what I learn. Any tips on using it?

If I decide to do the head, intake and exhaust gaskets, I could do it with the engine still in the car, correct?

[jopizz]

There's definitely coolant in the pan although the oil itself doesn't look milky. I would do the coolant test to be sure. Make sure you don't go over 13 lbs of pressure when using the tester. Yes, you can do the gaskets without removing the engine. It helps to have an engine hoist to get the intake off and on but I've done many without one. Having two people is also helpful. Remove the heads with the exhaust manifolds still attached. Just remove the four exhaust pipe nuts. Your exhaust manifolds do not use gaskets between them and the heads. I recommend you have the manifolds surfaced so they are perfectly flat.

John

[dgs]

What a I looking for in doing a cooling system pressure test? I get that the system should hold pressure and if it doesn't, the test may reveal an external leak by pushing coolant out. But what do I look for with a bad head gasket?

[jopizz]

Any external leaks like a bad freeze plug will make the coolant test pretty much useless. Unless you see coolant dripping into the crankcase you may not be able to correctly diagnose an internal leak. In this case I recommend a compression test. This will show whether you have a bad head gasket. Usually low readings on two adjacent cylinders indicate a bad head gasket. Unfortunately it won't show if you have an intake manifold leak.

John

[dgs]

Hmm, OK. I guess at this point, I need to finish the new pan first so I can get the radiator hose put back on and do the coolant pressure test first, then the compression test.

At this point I'm assuming that I'm doing the head gaskets, though. I suppose I ought to start a new thread once I get to that point.