The only other issue I could see is maybe a valve needs adjusted but at this point it is just a guess
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JohnJohn Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator
Thunderbird Registry #36223
jopizz@squarebirds.org 856-779-9695
https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htmComment
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The carb is a new Holley seems to be getting gas when I manually inspect it maybe it's getting I much. As for the distributor I rotated to tdc and it was pointing at the 6 tower. It is possible that it was directly pointing at the tower but would think it would still run. But then again maybe if it was off a little bit that is the cause. Anyone have any suggestions because a timing light won't help unless I get it running. It wants to run but then it either dies out or back fires right when I think it is about to catch. Forgot about the valves that defiantly saves me some $$. When we put the engine in we made sure the little holes or notches in the timing gears aligned. It is just odd that is ran and is now fighting me.Comment
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From what you just stated it seems that the distributor is not in the correct position. Rotate the engine by hand (take the plugs out first) and get the #1 cylinder at TDC. To get to TDC while rotating the crankshaft clockwise put your thumb over the plug hole and you should feel pressure as the piston rises. Then remove the distributor cap. With the vacuum advance pointed to the front, the rotor should be pointed to the #1 connector on the cap.
If not, remove the distributor and set it into the correct position.Comment
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My suggestion is to go through the procedure to set the initial timing. You want to make sure that the rotor is pointing to number #1 with the #1 piston at TDC. The car should stay running enough to set the timing if this is done correctly and everything else is ok. The procedure is detailed in the shop manual. If you don't have one you can download a copy for about $16. Working on these cars without one is nearly impossible.
JohnJohn Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator
Thunderbird Registry #36223
jopizz@squarebirds.org 856-779-9695
https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htmComment
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Let's stop the guesswork and let the engine speak for itself.
Pull your driver's side valve cover off. We're going to be using #6 cylinder's rocker arms.
By hand, rotate the crank (looking at the front it goes clockwise) until you see motion on #6 rocker arms. On the driver's side, that's the second cylinder's rocker arms from the front.
First, the exhaust will go down then up,
(exhaust side-->O O )
but just before it gets all the way up the intake rocker arm will start down.
( O O<--intake side)
Right at this point, when these two rocker arms are both slightly open but dead level with each other (use a scale across both rocker arms at the valve tips) stop.
Now, look at your timing marks on the crank damper. What does it read? <--this is your proof; the relationship of your camshaft to your crankshaft. All it cost was the removal of one valve cover and ten minutes.
Follow this to the letter and your engine will tell you the real story. After the cam and crank timing is correct, then we can go for spark timing. - DaveMember, Sons of the American Revolution
CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.
"We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
--Lee Iacocca
From: Royal Oak, MichiganComment
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Right now I have the vacuum advance pointed to the left if you are looking at the engine so you're saying rotate it to the center and then check for tdc and rotor position. When I used the timing light in the past it made me rotate to the left to make it fall with in the prescribed marks.
Excuse me for my my dumb questions but remove all plugs and then check for pressure on the number on cylinder when I start to feel pressure stop? Or continue till I feel pressure and it's at tdc?Comment
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Right now I have the vacuum advance pointed to the left if you are looking at the engine so you're saying rotate it to the center and then check for tdc and rotor position. When I used the timing light in the past it made me rotate to the left to make it fall with in the prescribed marks.
JohnJohn Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator
Thunderbird Registry #36223
jopizz@squarebirds.org 856-779-9695
https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htmComment
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Yes to disconnecting the vacuum but can't remember the timing marks far limit. I will start the process to check the cam and crank timing and let you know where I'm atComment
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Right now I have the vacuum advance pointed to the left if you are looking at the engine so you're saying rotate it to the center and then check for tdc and rotor position. When I used the timing light in the past it made me rotate to the left to make it fall with in the prescribed marks.
Excuse me for my my dumb questions but remove all plugs and then check for pressure on the number on cylinder when I start to feel pressure stop? Or continue till I feel pressure and it's at tdc?
I suggest that you get yourself a decent Chilton's or Haynes manual and read up on these basic procedures.Comment
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Ok valve were just about perfect I didn't have a scale so I made do with what I had and they were perfect at tdc again no scale so chance of error. Ready for next step on this I thought they were close at 2 or 3 notches below 30 but I turned and at tdc they were closerComment
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At this same crank position, (I can check this later but if memory serves me correctly) drawing an imaginary line the rotor should face toward #6 cylinder and at #1 spark plug tower when you put the cap back on. The position of the distributor should comfortably sit with the vacuum advance far away from any obstruction. If your distributor is off by one tooth, the rotor will be 11° off and between towers when your points open.
I don't know what you mean by this. Please explain. - DaveLast edited by simplyconnected; October 1, 2013, 02:16 AM.Member, Sons of the American Revolution
CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.
"We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
--Lee Iacocca
From: Royal Oak, MichiganComment
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I will move the distributor so that the vacuum advance is facing right at me and check the rotors position. You want the front of the rotor on the number six tower and the tail of the rotor on the 1 tower.
As for what I meant is as the timing marks became obvious i checked the valves to see where I was at and the valves were close to being level at about 26 or 28 degrees before tdc. But as I continued to crank it became level at tdcComment
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Dave means that the front of the rotor should be pointing toward #1 on the distributor cap and the #6 CYLINDER not distributor. I'm not sure if it will line up with the #6 cylinder but it must point to the #1 tower.
JohnJohn Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator
Thunderbird Registry #36223
jopizz@squarebirds.org 856-779-9695
https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htmComment
-
I will move the distributor so that the vacuum advance is facing right at me and check the rotors position. You want the front of the rotor on the number six tower and the tail of the rotor on the 1 tower.
As for what I meant is as the timing marks became obvious i checked the valves to see where I was at and the valves were close to being level at about 26 or 28 degrees before tdc. But as I continued to crank it became level at tdc
Valves are always level throughout the compression and power stroke. That's not part of this test. I am only concerned with the #6 rocker arms at the very end of exhaust and the beginning of intake. Right at that moment, when both valves are dead level, your crank should show TDC.
Why? Because look at the firing order:
1-5-4-2
6-3-7-8
When ONE is up, so is SIX. It has to be because in another crank turn SIX is firing, since this is a four-stroke engine. When ONE is on its power stroke, SIX is on exhaust. I have yet to find this info in any of the books.
Enough preaching. If you're satisfied the valves are correct, then so am I. There's no guess work or opinions going on here, but mechanical facts.
After the cam is timed, only then can you address the distributor timing. See how everything works together? At this exact crank location, point the rotor at #6 cylinder. You need to go a bit beyond that because the distributor gear is beveled. It won't drop down all the way because the oil pump driveshaft hex isn't lined up, yet. Simply keep light downward pressure on the distributor while turning the crankshaft bolt and the distributor will drop within 1/2-turn.
As long as the rotor is pointed at #6 cylinder at TDC, the distributor vacuum advance pancake should be comfy pointing straight at you. - DaveMember, Sons of the American Revolution
CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.
"We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
--Lee Iacocca
From: Royal Oak, MichiganComment
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