Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

4100 base gasket

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • jopizz
    Super-Experienced


    • Nov 23 2009
    • 8308

    #16
    I've had 4100's that for whatever reason I just can't get to run correctly. That's one of the reasons I usually wind up replacing them with an Edelbrock 1406. It sounds like you've done everything possible. Just about every 4100 I've taken apart has the secondaries frozen shut. I doubt it was done on purpose.

    John
    John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

    Thunderbird Registry #36223
    jopizz@squarebirds.org 856-779-9695

    https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

    Comment

    • Dan Leavens
      Moderator / Administrator


      • Oct 4 2006
      • 6366

      #17
      John I agree with your Edelbrock 1406 choice especially with all the CFM. Have it my 60 and no issues at all.
      Dano Calgary,Alberta Canada
      Thunderbird Registry
      58HT #33317
      60 HT (Sold )

      Comment

      • bbogue
        Newbie
        • Oct 25 2015
        • 12

        #18
        New carb?

        You guys seem to like the Edelbrock 1406. How well does it install? Works with the Cruiseomatic throttle and kickdown linkage OK? Need a hardware kit of some sort? Holley literature makes me think their 80457-S is all ready for Fords. Less so the Edelbrock info., more Shuvvy-oriented, my impression. I was leaning toward a Holley. Persuade me otherwise if you feel strongly about the choice. My 390 is only slightly modified...Comp Cams 255DEH (mild) cam, adjustable roller rockers, FPA headers with 2 1/4" dual exhausts and open-type mufflers. Stock intake and heads. My car does not sit for long periods. A weekly run, at least.

        Thanks.

        Bill

        Comment

        • scumdog
          Super-Experienced

          • May 12 2006
          • 1528

          #19
          Originally posted by bbogue
          You guys seem to like the Edelbrock 1406. How well does it install? Works with the Cruiseomatic throttle and kickdown linkage OK? Need a hardware kit of some sort? Holley literature makes me think their 80457-S is all ready for Fords. Less so the Edelbrock info., more Shuvvy-oriented, my impression. I was leaning toward a Holley. Persuade me otherwise if you feel strongly about the choice. My 390 is only slightly modified...Comp Cams 255DEH (mild) cam, adjustable roller rockers, FPA headers with 2 1/4" dual exhausts and open-type mufflers. Stock intake and heads. My car does not sit for long periods. A weekly run, at least.

          Thanks.

          Bill
          A vacuum secondary 600cfm Holley would really suit your 390, if you wanted
          more 'grunt' you could use a 780cfm model.
          The 600 would give you all the street drivability you would need and in my experience Holley carbs are pretty compatible with Ford throttle and kick-down mechanisms,I'm considering one myself to keep my '66 mobile while the 4100 is away being overhauled. The two-cents worth of a Kiwi for what it's worth. (About 1.38 U.S. Cents!)
          A Thunderbirder from the Land of the Long White Cloud.

          Comment

          • jopizz
            Super-Experienced


            • Nov 23 2009
            • 8308

            #20
            You only need to connect the accelerator rod to the 1406 carburetor linkage. Same setup as the 4100. I just had to adjust the rod to make it slightly longer. There's no other hardware needed. I've used both Edelbrocks and Holleys and I prefer the Edelbrock.

            John
            John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

            Thunderbird Registry #36223
            jopizz@squarebirds.org 856-779-9695

            https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

            Comment

            • bbogue
              Newbie
              • Oct 25 2015
              • 12

              #21
              Rear fuel inlet?

              I read a comment somewhere about how the Edelbrock carbs have a rear fuel inlet. How did you guys who switched from 4100's accomodate this? I'm not crazy about a fuel line laying across almost the full length of the intake then making a u-turn to the carb.

              Bill

              Comment

              • jopizz
                Super-Experienced


                • Nov 23 2009
                • 8308

                #22
                The fuel inlet is on the passenger side rear. It depends how much effort you want to put into it. You can connect a short rubber line from the existing metal fuel line into the carburetor input. I make sure it sits a few inches off of the intake. You can also fabricate a new metal line from the fuel pump into the carburetor. That's the way I prefer to do it but I've done it both ways without any issues.

                John
                John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

                Thunderbird Registry #36223
                jopizz@squarebirds.org 856-779-9695

                https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

                Comment

                • bbogue
                  Newbie
                  • Oct 25 2015
                  • 12

                  #23
                  Better now

                  I was more encouraged today by the engine's performance after repairing the auto choke (wouldn't open very much) and snugging the carb base nuts a bit. Backed her out of the garage with minimal misfire, warmed it a bit, then adjusted the idle mix screws using a tachometer and vacuum gauge. Tach and vacuum gauge both responded to tweaks of the mix screws which seemed best about 2 turns out, each side. Vacuum is up an inch, to 16 now, probably courtesy of the repaired power valve cover. I also set the idle speed to about 700 rpms and checked the timing. I use manifold vacuum for the vacuum advance as it helps cool the engine in hot weather. Initial timing is 16 degrees advanced. The vacuum advance is limited to 10 more degrees so I have 26 at idle. Centrifugal timing is 20 degrees and comes on fully before 2500 rpms. The test run was good, with only a little hesitation to complain about. Power was excellent but I can't say for sure if the secondaries opened. I'll check that on another run sometime. I did not notice any misfire during the run, of course the engine was warm and the issue has always been worse when cold. When I returned from the run, I let her cool for a while (to below 150) then backed her out of the garage and drove back in. Minimal, if any, misfire was noted. I plan to run it a while as is, with a few tweaks of the idle mix screws as I think necessary. Today's run was encouraging enough that I'm not going to rush to replace the carb just yet. At least I am satisfied by the improvements that the misfire issue is fuel/air related. I was becoming concerned of a head gasket leak between cylinders.

                  Thanks to all for their interest.

                  Bill

                  Comment

                  • GeoffInCarlsbad
                    Experienced
                    • Jul 4 2015
                    • 206

                    #24
                    How to attach tach

                    Hi guys:

                    I am diagnosing my issues similar to Bill's on my 4100. Before I make the investment on a new Edelbrock 1406, I would like to learn how to make all these adjustments per the Ford Manual. I have not had the opportunity to use a tach and vacuum guage. I would like to get this experience.

                    Is there any documentation on how to use the tach? Or should I just rely on the instructions from a tach I might purchase? Same question for vacuum gauge. I then suppose that I can properly set timing better with the vacuum advance.

                    All advice appreciated!

                    ~g
                    Geoff In Carlsbad
                    1961 Thunderbird Convertible aka: Betty:cool:


                    sigpic

                    Comment

                    • jopizz
                      Super-Experienced


                      • Nov 23 2009
                      • 8308

                      #25
                      I would follow the instructions that you get with the tach. Most times you will hook it up to the battery and the coil. You should hook up the vacuum gauge to a port on your intake manifold. Usually I pull off the power brake hose and use that port if there's nothing else available. Here's how I adjust the carburetor. Everyone has their own method.

                      Attach the tach and the vacuum gauge.
                      Block the wheels so the car doesn't accidentally start to move.
                      Warm up the car until the choke is fully open.
                      Adjust the idle screw on the carburetor so that it reads about 800 in Park on the tach.
                      It's recommended that you adjust the mixture screws with the air cleaner on, however it's nearly impossible with the stock air cleaner so remove it.
                      Start with one mixture screw and slowly turn it clockwise until the motor starts to miss and run rough. Then as you are watching the vacuum gauge slowly turn it counter-clockwise. You will see the needle start to rise. When it gets to the point where it isn't moving any higher slowly start to turn it clockwise again. As soon as you see it start to drop turn it counter-clockwise about 1/8 turn. Reset the idle screw so it reads 800 again. Do the same thing to the other mixture screw. If turning the mixture screws have no effect on the vacuum gauge then your carburetor's idle passages are dirty and it will have to be taken apart and cleaned.

                      As I said everyone has their own method on how to tune a carburetor. This works for me.

                      John
                      John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

                      Thunderbird Registry #36223
                      jopizz@squarebirds.org 856-779-9695

                      https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

                      Comment

                      • GeoffInCarlsbad
                        Experienced
                        • Jul 4 2015
                        • 206

                        #26
                        thanks John!

                        Thanks John! I will give it a shot this weekend.

                        I guess my question is around the tach. Is this a simple tachometer like I would mount in the cockpit or is there a meter (like a multi-meter type device)? I am guessing I can just go buy an inexpensive tach and just hook that up as instructions suggest.
                        Geoff In Carlsbad
                        1961 Thunderbird Convertible aka: Betty:cool:


                        sigpic

                        Comment

                        • jopizz
                          Super-Experienced


                          • Nov 23 2009
                          • 8308

                          #27
                          You can buy just a simple analog tach that's fairly cheap. The one I have is in a multi unit that has a number of other functions. It really doesn't matter which type you use to set your idle speed.

                          John
                          John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

                          Thunderbird Registry #36223
                          jopizz@squarebirds.org 856-779-9695

                          https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

                          Comment

                          • GeoffInCarlsbad
                            Experienced
                            • Jul 4 2015
                            • 206

                            #28
                            Inexpensive Tach worked!

                            Hi John:

                            Yes, I purchased an inexpensive 3 3/8" tach from O'Reilly, hooked it up to my negative (black) and positive (red) along with a run to the neg on my coil. Worked great. Set the RPM's per the specs in the manual. Tomorrow morning it will be interesting to see if the cold-start rpms with the automatic choke adjustments per spec work.

                            Nice thing is tonight, after having not started her for several days, she fired right up.

                            Thanks for the tips! Based upon the condition I got her in, I don't think this Bird has run this well in many, many years.

                            Thanks for all of your help. This forum is the greatest.
                            Geoff In Carlsbad
                            1961 Thunderbird Convertible aka: Betty:cool:


                            sigpic

                            Comment

                            • jopizz
                              Super-Experienced


                              • Nov 23 2009
                              • 8308

                              #29
                              Glad to see that you are getting it sorted out. Getting the choke set right can be frustrating. Small adjustments make a big difference.

                              John
                              John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

                              Thunderbird Registry #36223
                              jopizz@squarebirds.org 856-779-9695

                              https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

                              Comment

                              • GeoffInCarlsbad
                                Experienced
                                • Jul 4 2015
                                • 206

                                #30
                                More adjustments needed

                                The good news is that she starts right up. But I'm still having some issues with the choke (fast idle cam).

                                Per the manual, I am setting the screw starting at the "step" but the picture in the figure does not necessary resemble what's on my carb.

                                When cold, and I hit the gas, I am getting the chronic delay, as if there is an issue with fuel delivery or the sucking of air into the carb somewhere. Last night when she was hot, it seemed fine, but today is another day! I will have to take some time to play with this when I have a few hours....but right now, yep, a little frustrated.

                                What puzzles me is this: The manual says, let the engine get hot, put the car in D and set the RPM to 450-475. Done. Then, to set the fast idle cam, it says to turn the fast idle screw to attain 1700 rpm at rest. That seems a little counter-intuitive to me, unless I should do that when the engine is cold? Or is there an issue with the automatic choke or the choke plate not set right?

                                There's always something to do, isn't there?
                                Geoff In Carlsbad
                                1961 Thunderbird Convertible aka: Betty:cool:


                                sigpic

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                😀
                                🥰
                                🤢
                                😎
                                😡
                                👍
                                👎