And so it begins...help!

[Guest]

Richard

You are so right. To be honest I didn't ask those questions. Maybe I was naive thinking that I didn't need to grill the guy and tell him how to do his job. I'm learning! Over time and with the help of this great forum, I intend to be the expert on my car.

On the positive side, I've just been speaking to someone with a 57 Bird who lives in my street. It was good to be able to vent to someone who shares the pain! He recommended a local mechanic who knows these cars, is not expensive and is easy to work with. This is good to know for the future.

Mark

[Guest]

Update: Well everyone, it's no surprise that you were right in your concerns. The mechanic has now replaced the fuel pump and is getting an extra 1 psi pressure compared to the old pump. He has changed the plugs and installed the Petronix kit and coil despite my telling him that I could see no point until the running problems were addressed. The idling is still very rough although the car starts easily enough when cold.

He took it for a test run yesterday but ran out fuel after half a mile. I told him that I didn't believe the car ran out of fuel. This is exactly the problem that I brought it to him for and still hasn't been fixed. The car would go for a short time and then die. After 10-15 minutes of cranking and waiting it would start again and go another half a mile and stop. Why don't people listen?

Anyway, he has had the car since 4 January. It's no better than when it went in and still not drivable. I've told him that if he wants to get paid he'll stop spending his time and my money.

I'm afraid that what was a minor irritation is becoming a nightmare.

[scumdog]

I'm afraid that what was a minor irritation is becoming a nightmare.

Only because of incompetence of the person 'diagnosing' the problem.

A decent mechanic would have had it sorted by now.

Patience...it will be worth it.

BTW: Nothing like gladly selling a 'P.O.S that won't ****** go'.

And then seeing the new owner driving around in it with a smug look on his face about two days later.

THAT teaches you patience and humility...

[simplyconnected]

Wait a minute... I understand Richard (1960_430_AU) offered his phone number to help you out. Richard is a seasoned Ford mechanic. What's up with that?

I can understand happening upon an unknown mechanic in a pinch. This is quite different. If your engine is running, there are no major problems and good help has offered to help.

Your situation might be different if you wrenched on your own car. Instead, this sounds like your Thunderbird is held hostage by the guy you hired.

At least you have spare parts from the things he changed. We hope you get your car straightened out. - Dave

[jopizz]

I have a feeling it's something as simple the choke not opening up and flooding the engine when it gets hot. Hence the fact that it won't refire until you let it sit for 10-15 minutes. It could also be closed too much at start up which would cause the rough idle. If that's the case your spark plugs are probably loaded with carbon which will also cause rough idle. If the heat tube is not hooked up to the exhaust manifold the choke won't open. If the car came from a cold climate here in the states the choke probably has to be readjusted for your warmer weather. Anyway I'm pretty sure it's fuel related by the symptoms you describe. Hopefully you'll find a mechanic who is competent. The guy you have sounds like a tech school dropout.

John

[Guest]

Well the car is back home although I had to put it on a tilt tray to get it out of the mechanic's clutches. I'm $900 poorer although much richer in experience. They say this sort of thing builds character. Pity the car is no different. I spoke to Richard this morning and he was very helpful. Unfortunately he lives 1000 km away and so he's not able to assist directly. He did recommend a good mechanic here in Sydney although he's still about 50 km from me.

Now that the car is home I'm going to do a few things while I have the chance like getting the power seat to work and fixing the license plate lamps. I've been wanting to play with it since it arrived but it's been in a workshop almost the whole time. I've noted down all the possible causes that you guys have suggested and will give them to the mechanic I finally use but this time I'll be VERY selective. John, I take your point about the choke adjustment for local conditions. Yesterday was the hottest day on record in Sydney at 46 degrees C. That's almost 115 degrees in the old language!

By the way, I really appreciate your help everyone. Not only the technical help but also your encouragement as there were times I seriously regretted this whole experience. Julia will attest to the fact that I haven't been that pleasant to live with at times. No doubt she will also heave a sigh of relief when this is all sorted. She is a treasure.

Best Regards
Mark

ps. Looking on the funny side, this car has traveled far more miles on a tilt tray in Australia than on the road. Does she qualify as a trailer queen?

[Ian M Greer]

Mark , I think all of us at one time or another have been bitten in the wallet book by bad experiences regarding our car repairs . But the car hobby is just that a hobby. Your attitude is right-on, theres always tomorrow and the more you tinker with your car the more you become addicted and appreciate the dedication of others to the hobby . Keep us informed Ian M Greer (REMEMBER NOT ALLL BIRDS FLY SOUTH )

[jopizz]

Mark,

Owning a classic car usually takes one of two things. Mechanical ability or lots of money. To properly maintain a 50 year old car you should be able to do minor things like change plugs, adjust the choke, etc without having to spend money sending it out to a mechanic. A lot of the suggestions you've gotten here are very easy to do even for someone with limited or no mechanical experience. Much of the enjoyment comes out of the ability to do things yourself and seeing the results. I'm afraid if you have to solely rely on a mechanic to keep your car on the road you're going to spend a lot more money and have a lot more frustration and anxiety. Remember we are more than willing to walk you through doing things yourself if you are willing to try. None of us were born mechanics and it's never too late to learn.

John

[simplyconnected]

I would think a closed choke would be very evident to anyone looking at the carb.

I will suggest one last time, you drop your fuel tank and clean it or replace it. Lack of fuel delivery is a very easy symptom to diagnose. Either you see and smell gas or you don't. If you don't, pour a little in your carb and see if it starts right up.

Cleaning the pieces of rust out of your tank costs practically nothing. You can safely do it in the middle of your back yard using a garden hose. To dry it, use alcohol.

If you want to prove this out first, plug your fuel hose and run a small separate hose from your fuel pump to a two-gallon can of gas and go on a cruise. A gallon and a half of gas should get you at least fifteen miles (~25km).

I totally agree with John regarding the great feeling of satisfaction you will get by working on your own car. Non of this work is very hard. If you have a son, encourage him to help you. - Dave

[Guest]

Dave, as soon as I can I will drop the fuel tank and clean it out. I can buy a new one here in Oz but of course they are much more expensive. I will wait to see the condition of my tank first. I have owned and run classic cars for 40 years. To be honest when I was a young bloke I was fearless when working on my cars. They were cheap to buy and I couldn't afford to have work done. At the time I didn't know how much I didn't know but I kept them on the road somehow. I suppose as my cars get more expensive I've become too cautious and began to rely on others to do the work.

Time to bite the bullet, no pun intended.

[simplyconnected]

Griff, if the tank leaked I wouldn't fool around. I would advise you to buy a new one right away. Since it doesn't leak yet, and even though I believe it's rusty, it still has years of life ahead of it. I do not believe in using paints or creams that some folks try to seal the tank with. In my opinion they do a good job of plugging up the strainer in your tank.

Your tank has two huge openings; one for the filler tube and the other for the float/sending unit. Use copious amounts of water to flush with the tank upside down. I would do this with a small pool underneath so you can see and catch whatever comes out. I have a '55 Ford that I scooped five handfuls of rust from. It acted the same way yours did and my tank did not leak. The car idled just fine but when cruising, the strainer would plug and the Y-block stalled. After a minute, the fuel in the lines backwashed the strainer so it was open again. This happened over and over.

The trouble is, rust has nowhere to go so it travels around in the bottom of your tank. If you manually get the rust out, you should be good. I'm sure most folks have at least a little rust but that shouldn't affect anything. A lot of rust stops your car.

At worst, you may need to buy a small gasket for the sending unit. That should cost next to nothing. Just be careful around gas. Don't run electric motors around it because brushes arc. Do this work with plenty of ventilaton and away from buildings. The middle of your yard is perfect. Leave the tank in the sun after flushing. If you still have beads of water, slosh some alcohol around and dump it out. Then refill with fresh gas. Good Luck.

BTW, I do not believe in buying ANY parts unless they are necessary. - Dave

[Guest]

I had a chance to work on the car today. I pulled the fuel tank out and it was clean as a whistle inside with no evidence of rust. I washed it out with plenty of clean water and swished around some alcohol to dry it off. I also blew out the fuel line from the pump backwards with an air compressor. The sender looked clean and the internal filter was also clean. I also ran over them with compressed air.

However, I did find that the rubber hose between the metal fuel line and the intake was crushed. The crushed section was about 2 inches in length. Unless you run the rubber hose along the back side of the tank it will be compressed against the body when you tighten the tank. This has has been there for a long time and so it may not have been an issue before. However when I blew into it even slight finger pressure on the crushed area would block off the flow.

I installed a new section of hose, put the tank back in and put some fuel in. It started right up. I haven't tested the car yet to see if the problem is fixed because it happens when the car is being driven. That will have to wait for the weekend. Fingers crossed.

Speaking of fingers, in Oz when we say 'Pull your finger out' it means stop wasting time and do something. It was high time I pulled my finger out!

[simplyconnected]

Well alright! Now you know... I'm glad your tank was clean and I'm doubly glad you cleaned it just to be sure. At a cost of no money, you properly troubleshot the situation and found a problem. Now, with a clear conduit to the fuel pump, you shouldn't have any more delivery problems.

Let us know if the engine quits. Now that the fuel system is clear, we can move on to anything that isn't right in the Electrical Dept. Then again, you may not have any more problems. - Dave

[jopizz]

That's great news if that's all it is. That's not the first time I've seen that happen. There's a groove in the top of the tank as you can see by the picture where the rubber hose is supposed to go so it doesn't get crushed. It's probably been that way since the car was new and it took all this time for the hose to finally close to the point of starving the engine.

John

[Guest]

Well, I had a chance this morning to test the car. It started easily and I drove it about half a mile to fill it with fuel. When I began to drive the temp gauge started to creep up and within about two minutes it was just under hot. Naturally I haven't driven the car much but I did notice previously that the temp ran between midway and hot.

So here is what I found on testing

I checked the CVR with a multimeter and it was 11.5 volts input and all over the place on the output. It varied between 0 volts and 14 volts which is a bit odd since I wouldn't expect it to be more than the input. Testing with a test lamp showed regular on and off pulsing.

The fuel gauge reads high. About 4.5 gallons into an empty tank and the gauge is just under half. Grounding the sender unit and the gauge goes to full.

My multimeter has a temperature probe. I don't know how accurate it is but placing it on the head next to the sender showed a reading of about 82 degrees C or 180F when the temp gauge was just under hot.

By the way, I drove straight home and so I wasn't able to test whether fixing the fuel line made any difference to the engine stalling problem with a longer drive. It was a bit hard to start after sitting for an hour and the idling is rough when the engine is hot.

I have trolled through the posts on the CVR eany suggestions would be much appreciated.

Mark