Power brakes - booster issues?

[Rock&Roll Firebird]

Are there any issues with a power brakes booster to watch for first? There are power brakes installed on my '59 but the brake pedal acts if no booster was installed - very hard pedal and when pressed it returns veeery slowly... Any idea where to start? I have the 'under the dash' brake booster installed - not sure if that matters.

[simplyconnected]

Your booster is called a hydro-vac. All the cars used them, then they all went to a better booster, under the hood, in late 1959. The rubber and polymers we had back then were not very good.

Today, we use two-stage boosters that deliver over 800 psi.

The hardest part about retrofitting your Squarebird is the firewall bracket. - Dave

[Tbird1044]

I'm not 100% if that is the Kelsey Hayes booster on a 59, but when I was going through the Macs parts book, I was surprised to see that they had a full repair kit for these boosters for about $70. Just thought I would pass that along.
Also, did you check and make sure the check valve between the engine/booster/vacuum tank is oriented properly? These can get turned around.
Nyles

[Rock&Roll Firebird]

I'm not 100% if that is the Kelsey Hayes booster on a 59, but when I was going through the Macs parts book, I was surprised to see that they had a full repair kit for these boosters for about $70. Just thought I would pass that along.

I found the kit at Macs for $80. Question is if these few pieces of rubber can really make the difference... You being in my place - would you start with this? A new under the hood booster could definitely be an answer also, just seems lot more work to me (the bracket, brake lines, etc.). As I will be swapping to front disc brakes in a year or two, then I will go with the new booster for sure. Now I simply need the brakes to work somehow.

http://www.macsautoparts.com/ford_thunderbird/ford-thunderbird-power-brake-booster-rebuild-kit-under-dash-kelsey-hayes-bellows-type-1958-60.html

[Tbird1044]

This can be a tough call either way.
1. If you are planning to upgrade to disc in the near future, then you would need a new booster and master/cyl at that time. I believe you could use the same booster and adapter bracket, but would need a new master/cyl for the disc brakes. Also, you would probably need to buy a new master/cyl to mate up to the new booster, keeping the drum brakes. This assumes you still have the original master.
2. There is no guarantee that the Mac's repair kit will solve your problem. Good probability, but no guarantee.
Did the problem start all at once, or was it a gradual decline in performance?
Did you check the tee in the vacuum line from the engine to the vacuum tank and then master/cyl? There is a check valve inside this tee and it needs to be properly oriented. If this is reversed, it will stop all vacuum to the booster.
I quick check used to be if you could get about 2-3 strokes on the brake pedal and have vacuum boost after the engine is off, the booster is probably okay. The reserve tank should hold some vacuum for this to occur. Some of the old timers here might have input on this.
Keep us informed which way you decide to go.
Nyles

[Rock&Roll Firebird]

Well, first of all I need to check the state of the vacuum on the car. Not sure how to do it at the moment, but I already ordered a vacuum meter . I have a bad feeling about the vacuum lines when I look at them - they seem to me way too loose and not sealing... So that's where I would like to start - as I guess with no vacuum the brake booster will not operate (correct me if I'm wrong).

The problem was already when I got the car 2 years ago.

I will check the check valve as advised - where exactly is it located? Somewhere under the hood or closer to the vacuum tank?

Not sure if I understood how to perform the brake pedal test - the pedal is really hard and slow returning all the time .

[Tbird1044]

Power brake vacuum check valve

When you look at the attached picture, just to the left of the master cylinder and behind the valve cover, you will see a small metal tee in the vacuum line from the engine to the brake booster. This is the tee with the check valve inside. You might also check the rubber hose going to the vacuum tank which is mounted inside the left side fenderwell.
Nyles

[Rock&Roll Firebird]

When you look at the attached picture, just to the left of the master cylinder and behind the valve cover, you will see a small metal tee in the vacuum line from the engine to the brake booster. This is the tee with the check valve inside. You might also check the rubber hose going to the vacuum tank which is mounted inside the left side fenderwell.
Nyles

OK, I'll check it. Is it complicated to get to the vacuum tank?

PS: I see you also have the Colonial White bird (unless the picture is only illustrative)

[jopizz]

You have to remove the driver side splash shield. The vacuum tank is bolted to the inside of the splash shield.

John

[Tbird1044]

If you follow the vacuum line that runs inside the driver side fender well, you can usually stick your hand in their and feel if the hose is connected. You could disconnect the vacuum line, at the check valve tee, and connect a vacuum tester to the line and see if the tank will hold a vacuum. If it tests okay, you would not need to remove anything.
Nyles