Hello and Questions!

[Guest]

Hey there. I am new to the site as far as posting goes but have spent some time reading through it though. Great Info.

I have a few questions that I couldnt find addressed and of course I am a newcomer who hasnt worked on classic cars in about 25 years so please bare with me.

I have a 59 bird that i can go into detail about on another thread but would like a few things answered first that I am unsure of.

I do not have turn signals in the rear, not sure where to go to find the answer to why they are not working. Front were just unplugged and my uncle (who i got the car from) forgot to plug back in. left rear have green wires that were not attached, did that and nothing. on both right and left the red that have some kind of round piece of metal on it are both unplugged. and also on the right is an orange wire that isnt plugged into anything. i do have lights just not turn signals, not sure about back up lights, far right rear is also brighter than the rest. i have the wiring instructions but that does me no good as i am not an electrician. LOL any help for someone that doesnt know anything would be appreciated.

next is the fuel filter. i have read posts about the 60 but i dont have a 60. the engine is a REMANUFACTURED one dropped in sometime in 1980. according to the date code and other numbers is a 1967 model 352. i was told by Jasper Engines and Transmissions (who did the reman) that the engine is the same exactly as the set up that came in the car as far as the majority of parts go and there locations. Fuel pump is in same location as the 59 etc. Mine is leaking oil and have bought another from summitracing (i figured since its not the actual 352 from 59 then i might as well just buy some after market items since its not "correct") anyway the fuel pump is supposed to fit the engine and i need to know if the filter is inside the new ones, if its even there, or since its a new model 352 if its somewhere else on my engine or in a line somewhere. where would i check for this?

the other thing is on the coolant reservoir there is a hose on the back that i found plugged in but its not plugged into anything, its a small 5/16 of so i think and it was just sitting down by the fuel pump unhooked from anything. is it supposed to be that way?

next LOL there is a hose that goes from the back of the block or manifold that goes into the carb. its the same as the pictures in putting in a pcv valve that someone posted on this site, i think it was under tech or some other place where it has the detent plate removal and installation etc. mine needs to be replaced but there is sometype of valve inside the hose that seems to be a whole unit. i need to know what it is called and what it does. i unhooked it and cleaned out the port on the engine or manifold (cant remember), it was full of thick grime and the hose just popped off without effort. after cleaning and putting it back in there its in better shape but i still think it needs replacing.

well thats about it for now. i will wait til these are answered before i ask about the vacuum hoses for the wipers HAHA and of course which ones are important for engine performace and that come off the carb as i just bought an edelbrock 600cfm and the only one not plugged is the one for the distributor. please be aware again that i do not know alot so if i you respond keep it simple or spell it out for me!!!

[Guest]

Hey Doc,
The green-orange band is for the stop lights. The green wire is for the turn signals. Now you have a fuse in-line I can't remember if it is under the dash or under the carpet! Also you need a good ground. The best way to check this is to find a screw somewhere (or run a wire from negative battery post) attach a wire, run around to trunk area. Take a tester and see if you have power. With say left turn signal on, attach red lead of tester to green wire, on left side, and black lead of tester to ground. Have tester set on 12 volts! See if you have power. If you do you probably have ground issues that these old cars are notorious for!
As for the fuel filter, it screwed into the carburetor. You can find these every once in a while on Ebay. I found one and I also added one in line right before the fuel pump. The inline should be a see through so you can see what it has in it ever so often.
The radiator reservoir, if that line comes from just under the fill cap, that is your overflow! It is suppose to be that way!
The hose that comes from the back of the block was draft tube! It came out and turned down beside the transmission as a vent. Sound like someone has tried to change it. If it does not have a PCV valve in it it will need one!
Keep us posted!
Richard D. Hord

[JohnG]

Welcome to Squarebirds!!

* coolant overflow: with a little work you can hook a hose from the cap or tank to an overflow container. Not only will you not be dumping toxic waste on your engine or the ground but if done right, the car will suck it back in on startup (essentially a modern set up)

* unless you plan on getting the car back to 100% original, the easiest and most effective thing on fuel filters would be to buy generic ones to fit your hose in the auto parts store and just splice them in. Use 2, one before the fuel pump and one after. You need all the protection you can for your fuel pump and carb from whatever ancient crap is in the tank (most manufacturers will void the warranty on a pump if there was not a filer before it ). Until you have put some miles on the car, consider changing them quickly. You might also drain the gas tank. There is a square drain plug on the passenger side, in front. Anything you can get out is one less thing in your system!! Consider blowing out the line with compressed air, too. On some cars there is still a screen filter in the tank just before the line attaches.

* keep us posted on the turn signals. Most of the complexity is in the unit in the steering column so give thought to digging up a steering wheel remover/puller.

John

[Guest]

Welcome to Squarebirds!!

* coolant overflow: with a little work you can hook a hose from the cap or tank to an overflow container. Not only will you not be dumping toxic waste on your engine or the ground but if done right, the car will suck it back in on startup (essentially a modern set up)

* unless you plan on getting the car back to 100% original, the easiest and most effective thing on fuel filters would be to buy generic ones to fit your hose in the auto parts store and just splice them in. Use 2, one before the fuel pump and one after. You need all the protection you can for your fuel pump and carb from whatever ancient crap is in the tank (most manufacturers will void the warranty on a pump if there was not a filer before it ). Until you have put some miles on the car, consider changing them quickly. You might also drain the gas tank. There is a square drain plug on the passenger side, in front. Anything you can get out is one less thing in your system!! Consider blowing out the line with compressed air, too. On some cars there is still a screen filter in the tank just before the line attaches.

* keep us posted on the turn signals. Most of the complexity is in the unit in the steering column so give thought to digging up a steering wheel remover/puller.

John

Ok, thanks to each of you! i will do that with the wires for the blinkers. i will also try to take a pic and insert so i can show you what i am looking at and what i have.

one thing that i just noticed as i was outside tinkering with the new fuel flex hose that connects into the fuel pump. i just got it in there after some effort and i drove it and it no longer hesitates at all. fixed the rigging that the mech did i guess. however, i was taking pictures to post on here that i had questions about and had the air filter off and i heard this noise. now the hood was up obviously, filter off and sun was beating down on the carb when i heard it, looked around and noticed that the car was sending fuel to the carb. sprayed it in there for about 10 seconds. car was off. LOL is that normal?????? why would it just spray like someone hit the accelerator??

i will post some pics of stuff i am curious about here shortly. thanks for the help!!!!!

[JohnG]

Did we mention keeping a fire extinguisher close at hand ??


This is with the car not running, right? When you shut the car off, around 4-5 psi pressure remains in the fuel line. The fuel pump has check valves in it so the pressure cannot escape backwards. If the float valve in the carb does not seal, then I can imagine fuel spraying in.

[Guest]

Welcome to Squarebirds!!

* coolant overflow: with a little work you can hook a hose from the cap or tank to an overflow container. Not only will you not be dumping toxic waste on your engine or the ground but if done right, the car will suck it back in on startup (essentially a modern set up)

* unless you plan on getting the car back to 100% original, the easiest and most effective thing on fuel filters would be to buy generic ones to fit your hose in the auto parts store and just splice them in. Use 2, one before the fuel pump and one after. You need all the protection you can for your fuel pump and carb from whatever ancient crap is in the tank (most manufacturers will void the warranty on a pump if there was not a filer before it ). Until you have put some miles on the car, consider changing them quickly. You might also drain the gas tank. There is a square drain plug on the passenger side, in front. Anything you can get out is one less thing in your system!! Consider blowing out the line with compressed air, too. On some cars there is still a screen filter in the tank just before the line attaches.

* keep us posted on the turn signals. Most of the complexity is in the unit in the steering column so give thought to digging up a steering wheel remover/puller.

John

Hey there again. Yeah the Gas tank is brand new as is the fuel line and i just replaced (what a pain and bad design) the flex fuel hose that goes from the steel one from the tank to the fuel pump. which leads me to a couple questions. i ordered a new fuel pump, no bowel and filter, from summit racing. says it will fit. probably will. however it does not have anything on the top of the pump (dual action etc) so this means if i put it on there i will have to get electric wipers? i plan too anyway. also there is another hose that goes from the top of the fuel pump to a bunch of connecting tubes near the carb it seems. there is also a clear plastic thing next to them all that looks as if it has gas in it. dont see a filter though. so what happens with that, do i have to reroute something if using the new pump? i dont get it.

also, my new carb (edelbrock 600cfm) will be here in a couple days. its remanufactured and blueprinted and dyno tested by a guy that does just that based on the info you give him on the engine, torque, gears etc and altitude you live at. supposedly these things are just bolt on. no real tweaking etc. thats what he does with the fuel curve, dyno testing etc when doing this for a customer. he said the only port on it that is not plugged ( i am assuming they can easily be unplugged HAHA) is the one that goes to the distributor. now the fuel filter or something that looks like one (cannister) is sitting next to and in front of the carb, looks like it also has something from the distributor plugged into it. is this a fuel filter????? because if its not and i dont have a bowl on the bottom of mine, then where in the heck is it? also, can i unplug one of the ports on the carb and use that for the vacuum wipers til i convert?

thanks for the help!

[JohnG]

Pictures would help . . .

but you either have a single stage mechanical fuel pump or a dual stage. The former is an ordinary fuel pump while the latter has a second pump in it to provide vaccum for the wipers, as you point out.

If you only have a single stage, you can still run the wipers off the vaccum from the intake manifold (until you go electric).

If your carb has a fitting that goes to the distributor then the intent was to use intake vaccum to advance the timing (so we are talking air here, not fuel).

Intake manifold vaccum can be tapped into in two ways: a fitting on the manifold, or off of the base of the carb.

For purposes of driving the wipers, Ford provided an auxilliary source - the second stage of the fuel pump. But in other situations, other manufacturers just used manifold vaccum (not that it was remarkably successful . . . ) When you get under the dash, you find a Trico "motor" which appeared on a zillion cars going way back. (see http://www.wiperman.com/rebpagewpix.html for example)

Is your distributor original or did you just buy one? If the former, then some testing is in order:
a) does the shaft have much wobble in it? The bushings do wear and original ones had oiling locations which got ignored. The wobble causes inconsistent timing
b) does the mechanical advance work? Rust a problem here
c) does the vaccum advance work? Leakage a possible problem due to old seals and rubber

(suggestion: owning a vaccum gauge is good)

Is an Edelbrock carb really a Carter?? Does anyone know?

John

[Guest]

Ok. thanks. most of that is over my head. but i paid for a membership so as soon as my status changes i will upload what i have taken pics of so far. my concern with the fuel pump is that mine on there now has two ports at the top. one says for wipers on it. the other goes to a bunch of tubes near the carb and the rods that connect the accelerator hardware. and it has two inlets on the bottom, one goes up to that mess of tubes LOL and the other is where the fuel line from the tank connects into. the new one ONLY has two on the bottom. period. looks like all the other aftermarket ones that fit the fe engines and double checked and yes it will work. but i am clueless as to how. HAHA. i am trying to do the easy stuff that hasnt been done myself but this is a little ridiculous. i doubt i could change it anyway since i was up under there putting a new flex hose in that inlet anyway. its a real tight fit. the problem is the car sat for 25 years and although it runs fine now, it needs some things taken care of, like gaskets, hoses, vaccum lines, fuel pump leaks OIL, etc etc. even after 25 years all it needed was a battery, the carb cleaned out and tweaked (still isnt right though) and a fuel line and it started right up. the distributor looks to be new, i know my uncle had all new wires as well put on at the same time. that was 2.5 years ago and he barely drove it but it was done along with alot of other stuff. i will post those pics as soon as i am able. thanks so much for the help!

oh btw. i pulled out the am radio and need to know if any of the suppliers that are on here ( i have the catalogs) have the tube fuses that go INSIDE the radio. i have looked at a few and maybe i missed them but didnt say any. help on that would be great too.

here they are. finger is pointing to some of the items.
something that looks like the fuel filter cannister, another thing is the metal tube with abestos that burnt off, it goes into the manifold, broke off and isnt working. dont have the slightest as to what that is. plastic container with what looks to be fuel in it as well. any ideas?

[YellowRose]

Hello and Questions!

Hi Doc!

I JUST processed your one year Paid Membership. You should notice that you now have a Member icon by your name, indicating that your are now a paid member. Thank you for your financial support of the Forum. Now you should be able to post pictures whenever you want to. When you create a post, you should now be able to go below the box you type in and see Additional Options. If you can't you should see something that says Advanced Options or something like that. Click on that. Look for Manage Attachments and click on that. That allows you to post pictures and graphics. You will see that there are certain file size limitations, so keep your pix within those limits. If you need further help in posting pix, you can call, email or PM me. I will be glad to help you.

Check out the Technical Resource Library Forum above this. Scroll down to Factory Radio. There you will find the manual for the AM radio. You might want to print it out so you can go through it. There are also links to companies who repair radios. Everyone on this Forum should be putting the new, Combined Technical Resource Library to good use.

[Guest]

Hi Doc!

I JUST processed your one year Paid Membership. You should notice that you now have a Member icon by your name, indicating that your are now a paid member. Thank you for your financial support of the Forum. Now you should be able to post pictures whenever you want to. When you create a post, you should now be able to go below the box you type in and see Additional Options. If you can't you should see something that says Advanced Options or something like that. Click on that. Look for Manage Attachments and click on that. That allows you to post pictures and graphics. You will see that there are certain file size limitations, so keep your pix within those limits. If you need further help in posting pix, you can call, email or PM me. I will be glad to help you.

Check out the Technical Resource Library Forum above this. Scroll down to Factory Radio. There you will find the manual for the AM radio. You might want to print it out so you can go through it. There are also links to companies who repair radios. Everyone on this Forum should be putting the new, Combined Technical Resource Library to good use.

thanks so much. and thanks for the heads up on posting pics! I LOVE your Rose!

[JohnG]

briefly, the radio only has 4 tubes in it. You can easily replace them all for not much money. Try these guys: http://www.tubesandmore.com/

You should know that the amplifier for the radio is a separate item and is under the dash, to the very left, kind of above the driver's left knee. Aluminum looking unit.

The speaker can disintegrate due to age and/or crap getting in it.

Fuel pump: I will take a picture of a 2 stage tonight and get squared away on which is Gas In and which is Gas Out. From there just up to the inlet on the carb, with a filter in between.

[YellowRose]

Hello and Questions!

Hi Doc,

You threw me with that "tube fuses" in your post. I gather you meant the four electronic vacuum tubes that are in the radio. As JohnG said, there are sources for them. If you do not find them at that place, try the other links. They are available. But yours might be good, if you can get the power to the radio and get it turned on.

JohnG mentioned the radio amplifier unit. That is often hard to come by if yours is shot. There is a lead that comes off of it, that snakes through the dash panel over to the radio. That lead might not be connected to the back of the radio, or it might be cut. Or the amplifier might be bad. As John said, the speaker could be trashed also. You can get a new speaker easily enough from the vendors. You might be able to get an amplifier unit from one of the vendors also, one who specializes in repairing radios that is. If it turns out that your amplifier and radio are both shot, I have a complete working spare unit. Should you need it, you can email or PM me and we can talk. Here are a couple of pix of what the amplifier looks like and it gives you a better idea where it is located. It is that silver looking box to the left of the hood release handle, and right above the parking brake handle.

[Guest]

Hi Doc; Here is a list of the tubes and transistors in your radio. The T-bird radio was made by Motorola and was a hybred radio which means there are tubes and transistors in it. There are several of each of the tubes on eBay most of the time at around $5 each.

The transistors are a different story. The transistors are Motorola and were introduced in 1958 so they are no longer made but some substitutes are available.

12AF6 RF Amp tube
12AD6 Converter tube
12BL6 IF Amp tube
12AE6A Det-AVC-AF amp tube

Driver transistor in the radio tuner is a 2N573 a substitute is 2N1191.

Power transistors of which there are 2 in the amplifier are 2N176 and the best price I have found is around $35. each. A substitute is 2N2143 which can be had for around $5.00 each and should work.

Hope this helps.
Gary

[simplyconnected]

...Driver transistor in the radio tuner is a 2N573 a substitute is 2N1191.

http://store.americanmicrosemiconduc...FYVk7AodKxBXHA

Power transistors of which there are 2 in the amplifier are 2N176 and the best price I have found is around $35. each. A substitute is 2N2143 which can be had for around $5.00 each and should work...

Availability and pricing come and go. At times they are $35, but now a 2N176 is $7.40 + S/H:

http://www.hbelects.com/Semiconductor/2N/TRs-Semiconductor-2N176-2N176

These big & bulky germanium transisters are OLD technology, meaning they are very inefficient and outdated. They work, but we have much better transistors that use far less power (and produce less heat). - Dave

[Guest]

thanks

ok. thanks for the help with the radio. my uncle gave me the guys name and number here in florida that does a conversion to am/fm stereo and mp3 but keeps the stock one in there. so i think i will go that route. i havent looked for the amplifier and will see what i can see. i would suppose you have to take the whole instrument panel off to get in there, which i really need to do but my uncle took it apart, couldnt get it back on and had to take it to someone to put it back in. this is when the fuel/temp gauge broke and stopped working, fuse for the clock blew (which i fixed) among other things. i would love to know i could take the whole thing off and take a peak at all the wires as i know there is alot of stuff in there i could mess with and replace and might have turn signals. i still havent figured all that out yet. i dont like driving it much because i cant tell how much gas i am using, and i know these cars were NOTORIOUS for overheating. granted my uncle said he didnt have a problem with overheating and the radiator has been boiled out and fixed and it has a SIX blade fan on it which didnt come on them in 59 with or without a/c. a/c is another story HAHA. then again its a llate 66 early 67 352 engine so maybe thats why.

now i have read and read about the fuel pump. i understand it is a fuel pump and vaccum as well. the two prongs on the top are the vacuums apparently. i know that one (that says WIPERS) goes to the wipers from the fuel pump and across the manifold to the passenger side firewall. i have a vacuum leak there and have tried to fix it but the tube goes inside a hole in the fire wall and i dont know how to access it. so therefore it is OK to take that off completely and just plug the prong on the fuel pump? if so i think it would be better than knowing i have a vacuum problem there and letting it be for the time being. the other prong from the fuel pump goes up to the throttle linkage i think, near the carb. i read that it was a brake booster and it maybe because the place it connects to near the carb branches off and goes over to the driver side fire wall I THINK. if this is the case then my new fuel pump that is ONLY A FUEL PUMP will not work or how do i take care of that part of the vacuum since my new pump doesnt have it. this is what has me confused

next. i received my edelbrock carb today. the only plastic piece (elec choke housing) was broke in about 8 pieces. so he is sending a new one. thank goodness as edelbrock wants 32 bucks just for the coil inside and plastic HAHA. i have read on this forum that some have an edelbrock (mine is a 1406 model 600cfm performer series) and they have said it literally bolts on and very few IF ANY adjustments. so i am assuming that means that i do not have to have anything else from edelbrock, such as the linkages they say are used for fords, adapters etc. the spacer i have is the one that is on there now, the reman didnt come with it from the guy i bought it from and only one gasket..... also, on the current set up there is hose (pcv i think) that goes from the manifold into what looks to be UNDER the carb and under the spacer and slid onto that area. this ISNT the hole in the back of the edelbrock i assume????? as mine is plugged with a bolt and if i took it out there will be nothing to slide the hose back on to. i am trying to make sure that when i have a friend come help me and we take the old carb off (only says FOMOCO on it??) i am not stuck waiting on parts that i didnt get or needed to order. so any help with that would be greatly appreciated.

last but not least LOL around the linkages near the carb with all the metal tubes is a clear plastic thing that says PRESSURE REGULATOR. i cant remember the name on it but it looks stock and the name is something that also sounds stock HAHA. its ancient. has fluid which i assume is gas in it. need to know about that as well. whats it doing there? do i need it? what i am trying to do is get rid of the unnecessary late 50's things and use things that are more efficient. i originally wanted to keep EVERYTHING STOCK but since the engine isnt from 59 then i figure the little things like fuel pumps, carb, and maybe headers and intake manifold i will change out. do the disc brake thing and elec wipers but have everything else stock. so if you can help me determine what in the heck some of this stuff is and if its useless if upgraded then all i need to know is what it is and what to replace it with

i really appreciate the help you guys are giving me. i am still reading the tech stuff, looking at pics and learning. matter of fact i thought something was changed with my interior as most of the pics of the inside of some of the birds didnt have the chrome airvents above the radio, then i remembered that although my a/c doesnt work yet, i still have it LOL i also have the ROT sheet i found stuck in the back seat so i will scan and post that in the appropiate spot for those that are interested.

thanks again.