And so it begins...help!

[scumdog]

If you have good points, condenser and coil and you have rough idle installing a Petronix system probably isn't going to fix it. I still have standard ignition parts and my car idles smooth as silk, starts on the first turn and has plenty of pickup. And that's with a 50+ year old Ford yellow top coil. The advantage of the Petronix system is reliability with no adjustments or moving parts. In my opinion a properly adjusted standard ignition system will perform just as well.

John

Noyt in the same league but I have a dead stock '79 Morris Marina ute, stock coil & points etc.

And it starts on the first compression hot or cold, if it turned over any more than that I would suspect a problem.

[simplyconnected]

I agree with John.

...Apparently the voltage at the coil is 4 volts when cranking and 6 when running...

This proves your starter solenoid wire isn't connected.

You should get the full 12-volts at the coil when cranking. Tell your man to fix the wiring first. Put it back to 'original' BEFORE adding new electronics. If he needs a wiring diagram, give him the one for your car from our Technical Resource Library. - Dave

[jopizz]

Mark,

I hope you don't take this the wrong way but it seems your mechanic is more into replacing parts at your expense than diagnosing and fixing the real problem. He's already talked you into a new fuel pump and Petronix system which are two different systems; fuel and ignition. A defective fuel pump would be evident right away; not after driving the car awhile. The same with your points. I would agree with Dave about the wiring problem except at this point I have no confidence that your mechanic knows what he's looking at. He told you the carb was clean but was that just a visual inspection? One minute speck of dirt in the idle passages will cause rough idling and hard starting. I assume he took the top off and looked inside. Did he clean and blow out all the fuel passages with compressed air and take the venturies off and clean them. Did he remove the idle mixture screws and clean the idle passages. No mechanic can tell whether a carb is clean just by looking. I'm afraid that this problem is going to cost you a lot more to fix than it should.

John

[simplyconnected]

John, we already know he's getting four volts at startup. That would make any car run extremely rough.

Putting wires back to stock condition only requires a little time. I agree with John regarding your mechanic. He should know not to jump to conclusions, but to methodically tackle each problem without getting sidetracked. First things first... - Dave

[scumdog]

John, we already know he's getting four volts at startup. That would make any car run extremely rough.

Putting wires back to stock condition only requires a little time. I agree with John regarding your mechanic. He should know not to jump to conclusions, but to methodically tackle each problem without getting sidetracked. First things first... - Dave

True Dave, even if a small jumper wire was used to temporarily supply 12V in plave of 4V it would pretty quickly show if that was the problem.

[jopizz]

According to what he was told he's getting 4 volts at crank and 6 volts when it's running. 6 volts when the engine is running is normal so that doesn't explain the rough idle. That's why I don't believe the 4 volts at crank. If he knows cars then he should know that installing a Petronix system won't fix that problem and to check the solenoid wire first. Just skeptical I guess.

John

[Guest]

I hear what you are saying. This mechanic was not my first choice but I was stranded on the side of the road and he was the only one open at the time. Australia closes down over the Christmas to early in the New Year and so there wasn't much alternative. I agree that the solution does not lie in throwing parts at the car. I'll get him to install the fuel pump so the car is drivable ( I hope) but then take it to a good auto elecrician to get it running right. Even with the new pump I have an awful suspicion that the motor will quit again when I test drive it.

To be honest I'm a bit over all of this. So far, I've spent most of my annual holiday trying to sort this out and the car is still off the road.

[jopizz]

Sometimes we forget that you are not in the states where there's a repair shop on just about every corner. Hopefully you'll find the right mechanic and get your car on the road soon. It must be tough being in a warm climate and not being able to drive your new convertible.

John

[del]

bad gas?

Hi all. I hope you had a wonderful Christmas.

So, on Christmas eve the 61 convertible arrived. The battery was flat after sitting for five weeks but I jumped it and turned it over for a while it started and quickly settled down to an even idle. I took the car around the block and it went well. The top mechanism worked properly and it went down smoothly. The top is currently down.

Today the car wouldn't start. After a lot of cranking it fired up but wouldn't idle and quickly died even when revved constantly. I suspect it's the in-line fuel filter and have bought some spares and will install another tomorrow. The car still has its original fuel tank and it's had a lot of shaking up over the past month.

More worrying is that the top doesn't work now. I wanted to open the deck lid to get into the trunk but nothing happened. No noises or clicks when I press the button. It worked fine two days ago but is dead now. The battery is fully charged and I jiggled the shift lever in park and neutral in case the cut out was stopping it. I've spent a couple of hours reading past threads on convertible tops not working but most of these problems seem to relate to tops stuck half way through a cycle. I have also been reading the workshop manual but to be honest, it's not that clear. Can I assume that a top control switch and actuator switch are the same?

So, given that the top worked perfectly two days ago, should I start with the two circuit breakers near the starter relay?
Can I use a test lamp to test these circuit breakers?
Also, how do I get to the top control neutral relay, top control switch and relay power bus bar located?

I was expecting the car to need some sorting however this is a bit of a surprise.

Regards
Mark

Hi Mark - Do you know the history of your car before you got it? Was it in storage? How old is the gas? You mentioned that it has the original gas tank...Just another idea to consider. I'm no expert but bad gas can make a car act like yours.

[simplyconnected]

...bad gas can make a car act like yours.

Good point, Del. So can rust in the tank. That would explain why it stops running. As John pointed out, he has two problems; Fuel supply and Electrical. Both are separate issues.

I would drain the tank and drop it for a good inspection or replacement. Rust has nowhere to go so it clogs the pickup filter. - Dave

[Guest]

There were about 5 gallons in the tank when it came over and I put another 5 gallons in from a jerry can. The previous owner told me the car was running perfectly and I have no reason to doubt him. It only has 2000 miles on it since a full motor and transmission rebuild in 2005 and so I assume it was used regularly but not often.

I've sourced a new fuel tank here but haven't ordered it yet. The new fuel filter made no difference and the one that came off the car had no evidence of dirt or rust in it. When the new fuel pump arrives I'll take it down to be installed and tell the mechanic to pull the carby off and blow out all the jets etc with compressed air. I'll also tell him to check the solenoid wire.

Thanks for the suggestions, guys.

[Ian M Greer]

If I might add my two cents (thanks to Dave, simplyconnected for his help so I can now communicate) Mark not knowing the past history of your car a thought to keep in mine .Your car is now 52 years old if it has not had the gas line replaced check a couple of places. Remember you have rubber hose flex connections in three places on your gas line run from your tank to your fuel pump . First there is the flex connection at the tank connecting the gas line to the fuel sender, second and the one to be aware of and check and replace if original anyway ,there is a flex connection behind ths drivers rear splash shield. This connections often times brakes down whether internally or externally and cracks and or ruptures . Over time that area behind the shield fills with dirt and dibre and when wet your gas line and rubber hose site incased in it .Also inexperienced mechanics at times lift on the bottom of the shield and collapse the hidden gas line beneath . The last rubber line is the obvious one at the fuel pump . But in all honesty the one behind the splash shield is the one to at least look at and if nothing else replace the rubber gas line for saftey sake . The fender shield is only on by 4 or 5 bolts .I'm not saying that this is your problem but if nothing else its good preventitive maintenance. Ian M Greer.

[Dan Leavens]

Ian thanks for the post, as I did not know about the " hidden " lines behind the shields. That's why this site is the best on the planet for Tbirds.

[Guest]

Thanks for that advice Dan. I noticed that most of metal gas line is concealed and was wondering how to get to that flex join near the splash shield. Unfortunately I don't have the car at home to start checking these things yet but I will as soon as I can. Another wasted day as the fuel pump has not arrived yet.

[Guest]

Hi Mark
Being here in Oz and sourcing parts can be frustrating and expensive at best.
Diagnosis is way better than random replacement.
Get the electrical right first!
Did your mechanic hook up a fuel pressure gauge to the pump?
Has he tested fuel flow even at cranking speed?
As a mechanic myself I have a huge problem with mechanics throwing parts at a car hoping it's the right one.
There is a supplier in Melbourne that carries a lot of 61-66 parts

Just had to fix a mates 56 that had been "fixed" by an "expert" that couldn't get it to run properly after replacing parts.
Yet another instance where a vacuum gauge is priceless