1960 T-Bird Project

[olevet]

Good luck with it, I just started on mine after a Bunch of years. had to retire to find the Time.

[Wudro]

Good luck with it, I just started on mine after a Bunch of years. had to retire to find the Time.

Cool Man Thanks. Hopefully I finish mine before retirement. Got 30+ years. Ha! As Yellowrose said your pics aren't up but I'll find em once u do get em. Look forward to seeing her

[Wudro]

I already switched to a 390 in our 58 a few year ago, it was very easy, looks like the summer project will be switching to a C6 that is now laying on the shop floor, so if I am ahead of you on that, maybe I will be able to help.

Excellent! Is there somewhere I can see pics of your Bird on this forum?

[Wudro]

Thanks for the responses and info everybody. Very, very helpful. Saturday morning I'm going to pick up the 390 which the previous owner believes was in there before seizing up and being removed. He says I'm welcome to it. It's the right price, Free is for Me! If anything, it saves me a core charge. Then swing by Thunderbird Connection a few miles away and get acquainted. The 390/C6 combo is in first place as of now, but it's not set in stone.

[YellowRose]

1960 T-Bird Project

Ryan, if you look at your front wheels, I would think that if there was a disc brake conversion done on that Tbird you would be able to see the disc brakes. Certainly, if you were to get down and look underneath at the wheels.

[RustyNCa]

Excellent! Is there somewhere I can see pics of your Bird on this forum?

There are some here and there on the forum, but go look here over on photobucket for what I do have out there.

http://s103.photobucket.com/user/justacog/library/58TBird

We will see how it goes, but it looks like the 390/Cruisematic maybe coming out, and a Mercury 410/C6 setup with a 671 blower might be going back in it's place(I am hoping, but till the blower setup is actually sitting on my workbench, it's all a dream).

[Wudro]

Ryan, if you look at your front wheels, I would think that if there was a disc brake conversion done on that Tbird you would be able to see the disc brakes. Certainly, if you were to get down and look underneath at the wheels.

Ray I went out to my Pop's after work where The Bird's Nest is and we both see NO disc setup. Looks like Drums to my limited eye, and the same to my Dad's as well.

[Restifier52]

We will see how it goes, but it looks like the 390/Cruisematic maybe coming out, and a Mercury 410/C6 setup with a 671 blower might be going back in it's place(I am hoping, but till the blower setup is actually sitting on my workbench, it's all a dream).

Would that be the first Squarebird EVER with the motor sticking out of the hood? Oh, do turn that dream into reality.

[RustyNCa]

We will see how it goes, but it looks like the 390/Cruisematic maybe coming out, and a Mercury 410/C6 setup with a 671 blower might be going back in it's place(I am hoping, but till the blower setup is actually sitting on my workbench, it's all a dream).

Would that be the first Squarebird EVER with the motor sticking out of the hood? Oh, do turn that dream into reality.

Well, I have the motor, trans, extra hood so I don't cut the original one, and I am supposed to be getting the Weiand 671 blower and manifold from a gent I know.

I also have a 6x2 blower top I am thinking of running, so it would have 6 strombergs or holley 94s up on top of all that.

Ya'll keep good thoughts about me getting there....

So in theroy the motor should look something like this...except I think this one has a 471

[Wudro]

Well upon arrival at the previous owners house we took the tarp off the motor and took a look at what we got. Not being too familiar with engines we loaded her up and got her on a stand at my Pops house, something just didn't seem right. So we started taking down numbers and hittin the web for some research. The guy had little information on the history of this car, and apparently with this motor either... It's a Chrysler 360! So I'm back to square one with a seized Mopar Anchor taking up space. I met Darrin at Thunderbird Connection and he's a cool guy. He has a few 390's and one 352 at his place, so I may pick up one of those and Kick the Brick off the stand and go to work on a FORD V8. Bummer, but it was only time not money wasted.

[YellowRose]

1960 T-Bird Project

Hi Ryan, I see you found out that what you got in the way of an engine is a Chrysler 360. As you said though, it cost you some time, but not money to get it. Maybe you can swap it or sell it to someone else. Since Darrin at Tbird Connection has some 390's, it would be my suggestion to get one of them over the 352. Then marry it to a C6 tranny. From what I understand, the 390 will go right in without any motor mount modifications. There is not much difference in physical looks between a 352 and a 390. The 390 was introduced in 1961 in Tbirds to replace the 352, and was used through 1971 in many Ford vehicles.

[Wudro]

Thanks Ray. I was hoping you'd respond. Yeah I figured the same thing but Darrin suggested the 352. Now, I don't know if he is saying that just to remain stock but I'm not too interested in an exact restoration due to this car already being torn apart. I'm looking at around 90% stock, but willing to save some money and add convenience where applicable (Side Mirror, Trunk Mats, Etc...) I don't make much money and anything I can save in cost could go to another part in the future. The main goal is to get her on the road, then make her look good. The one thing he mentioned is the 390/C6 might take some tinkering to make it fit. With the Unibody I could see how that could turn into a problem. Plus, this being my 1st full restoration, I'm looking to minimize my obstacles and give myself a head start on future issues. But yeah, the 390 just makes sense. Newer, more parts available. I'll keep researching!

[YellowRose]

1960 T-Bird Project

Hi Ryan, I just had a short conversation with Dave ~ simplyconnected about the 390/C6 install. Here is what he had to say about that. First, he confirmed that you can't tell the difference between a 352 and a 390 just by looking at it. They look the same. He also said that a 390 will drop right into the Squarebird engine bay as it is. The C6 should be fine also, except for one minor difficulty, and that is perhaps having to make a mounting bracket for the tail end shaft, I think he said. He said that is easy to do. There is not going to be a problem dropping in a 390/C6 combination he says. It would be good if you could get a 390 WITH the C6 that came attached to it, together. Then you would have a set that you know goes together because they came out of another car as one unit. Later on, hopefully, he will amplify the comments on this. So if Darrin will let go of one of his 390's, you will probably be better off with a 390 that is a bit newer, and parts more plentiful and probably cheaper, than the 352, and a C6 that is also newer and probably better than a COM. And they are made to mate together, being the standard combination in later models of Tbirds and other Ford cars for quite some time.

[Wudro]

Great Insight, and Greatly Appreciated. I'll call TBird Conn tomorrow, and get prices and availability.

[YellowRose]

1960 T-Bird Project

Thanks, Ryan. I would hope tonight, that others who have made the 352/390/COM/C6 swap would post something regarding their experiences with this. There are a number who have made this swap on here. I have passed on to you what I know and have been told. I would hope that someone would be able to tell you how to tell if the engine you get IS a 390 and not a 352. I hope that someone would not try to pass off a 352 to you as being a 390. Hopefully, the person you are dealing with will not do that to you. I think that there are stampings on the engine that tells you what to look for. Hopefully, Dave will be along shortly and can tell you what to look for. So you might check this later tonight or in the morning to see if he has posted anything.

Here is some additional information on the 390.

360/390/410
The 390 block doesn’t differ much from the 332/352/361 blocks of 1958-60. The 390 uses the same block as the 360 and 410. All share the same 4.05-inch bore, with displacement varying according to stroke. The only real difference here is the crankshaft. The 410 Mercury is a 428 crankshaft in a 390 block. The 360 for trucks is a 352 crank in a 390 block. Where this block varies at all is in the area of high performance applications. The 1961-65 390 Police Interceptor and High Performance blocks (C1AE-V, C2AE-BC, C2AE-BE, C2AE-BR, C2AE-BS, C3AE-KY, C3ME-B, C4AE-F and C5AE-B) have heavier main bearing caps and drilled oil passages for hydraulic lifters. The trick here is, Ford never drilled the oil passages from the main galleries to the twin lifter oil galleries, which means no oil pressure to these galleries. Hydraulic lifters cannot be used in this block. Another difference in the 390 Hi-Po block from 1961-62 is additional ribbing between the main bearing webs. Ford also added an oil pressure relief valve to the block for added protection on the 390 Hi-Po.

If you find a 390 with something like C1AE, C2AE, C3AE, C4AE, C5AE, OR C6AE, stamped on them somewhere, you will know that engine probably came out of a '61-'66 Tbird, (C=1960's) or other Ford car.

You generally CANNOT tell what CID an FE engine is simply by looking at casting numbers!

The only way of differentiating between them, since there are no external markings to tell you what you've got, is to measure the stroke. Simply rotate the crankshaft around until the #1 cylinder is at TDC (top dead center) as indicated at the timing mark. Remove the spark plug and insert a wooden dowel into the cylinder until you hit the top of the piston and make a mark on the dowel. (Use the valve cover lip as a constant reference source.) Then remove the spark plug from the #4 cylinder (when #1 is TDC, #4 is BDC) and make another mark on the dowel. Then measure the difference.

The stroke measurement for a 352ci engine is 3.50". The stroke measurement for a 390 is 3.78". If you get a measurement of 3.78", then you have a 39ci engine...