Brass Window Rollers?

[Joe Johnston]

Its a rainy day, so I checked the 49 - 59 Illustrations book and it shows on pg 631 the same #23240 assembly which has #23286 roller for the 58 Thunderbird quarter window.

Page 750 of the Text catalog shows #23240 for:
53/58__A & S models_________BA7023240-A
59/____S
59_____57A,_ 75A
59_____A____9/16" width_____C0AB6423240-B

Does this mean a change between 58 & 59?? Might work on 58 but not 59 or 60??

I have worked on only 56 and a 57 windows and of all the roller assemblies, only one was worn significantly. I cleaned and greased everything well and switched it to a location where another roller was not worn and everything still works well. Evidently there is more strain on the Squarebirds regulators.

[YellowRose]

Brass Window Rollers?

It is my understanding that the BA7023240-A was the part that was used on the '58 and '59 S (Thunderbird) cars until the 1960 Production run. Then they switched to the C0AB6423240-B part in 1960. However, you will see that C0 part # listed as being in use on the A (passenger cars) in 1959... I see the entry for 59/___S (Thunderbird), but there is no BA7023240-A or a C0AB6423240-B listed next to it. So it appears the BA7023240-A part continued to be used in 1959.

[simplyconnected]

Rollers are a 'purchased part' from a company in Waterbury, CT.
The rollers Ford bought were also used in many cars auto-industry wide (yes, Chevy too).

The next question is, how many different rollers does Ford need to stock?

We determined that Casco has them But, as Joe pointed out, these same rollers were used from 1953 through the end of his Ford catalog. Casco is only interested in a few short years, not the big picture.

macsautoparts.com sells BA-7023240-A rollers for "Ford Thunderbird Power & Manual Window Roller Assembly, Frt Door & Rr Quarter Window, 1958-60 - FORD.

Wait a minute, Mac's also sells the same part for:
FORD FAIRLANE 1955, 1956, 1957, 1958, 1959
FORD RANCHERO 1957, 1958, 1959
FORD THUNDERBIRD 1958, 1959, 1960

Now we know there isn't much difference between the 'old' part number and the new (probably a materials change). Both parts fit all the windows and on millions of cars.

[Joe Johnston]

To me, this is what makes the restoration and preservation so interesting and important. Just the difference between model years within the same series (55-57 or 58-60) provides so much opportunity and demand for documentation. We may think all components of a series are the same but when the actual parts are examined, we find differences. I understand the desire for modification and the improvement in drive-ability from modification, but concourse restoration and preservation is essential to documentation of all these "little things".

Hope this helps some restorer/modifier/owner and we can keep parts available!

[YellowRose]

Brass Window Rollers?

Yup, MAC's sells them, and the example I posted was from the MAC's Thunderbird Parts site. In my searching I found that many other parts houses do also... They sell them for Mustangs, Mercuries, and many other Fords, and many other auto brands also, as Dave said. But are they the plastic ones? Are they the metal ones that someone said they had a problem with in a previous post? I could not find anyone who just sells the clip, but as Dave said, just pull the metal clip and the beveled washer out of the old set and slap them in the new set, metal or brass (when they become available) and see how it works. This thread is getting to be as long as some of the disc brake conversion threads! lmbo..

[simplyconnected]

...We may think all components of a series are the same but when the actual parts are examined, we find differences...

That's why I reference the Ford Master Parts Catalogs. Even Mac's doesn't know that the same rollers fit 1953 & 54 Ford cars because their guys didn't know how to translate Ford manuals.

...Are they the metal ones that someone said they had a problem with in a previous post?..

That doesn't matter. If one of our members is making them out of real brass, end of story. Martin's only concern is dimensions for fitment and he's got that down pat.

Parts houses and eBay sellers really doesn't matter to me. I'm buying from a Squarebirds.org member for many good reasons.

The original part was a hollow sheet metal stamping that contacted the pin on two ends but nothing in the middle. The holes elongated, turned egg-shape and they rusted into a piece of crap. Martin turns his rollers from solid brass. That's quality that I want in my classics. Good moly lithium grease on the pin will keep water away and stop rust from forming.

I reused all the parts from my original rollers except for the main body. The conical washer was ok, the spring and flat washer was ok and the "E" clip was just fine.

Martin, if you want to make a die for pressing a washer into a conical shape, use mild steel: Grind a drill bit at 45 degrees and dimple a block of steel the depth you want the washer to be. Then drill a center hole in it the size of the washer's ID. Turn a punch from mild stock with a pilot sticking out that fits the center hole in your female die and taper from the root at 45 degrees.
Place a flat washer in your die, lower your punch on it and smack it with a hammer. The washer will form beautifully and it will expand from the center hole, so it won't stick to the punch.

I made a die for #8 trim screw washers because I couldn't find them anywhere. Now the screws and conical washers are stainless. - Dave

[YellowRose]

Brass Window Rollers?

Nyles ~ Tbird1044 sent me this information.

"Here is a picture of the large white nylon rollers needed for the 1/4 windows. There are actually 2 rollers per window. One roller has the sliding bracket attached and the other is pressed into the frame and locked in by melting the nylon on the backside. If you send the frames out for chrome, these need to be removed. We lost one of the rollers, and the ones that are installed in the frame are not available, so I bought the roller with the sliding part attached, remove that part and used the roller in the second location. I just drilled the shaft of the roller and installed a screw with a washer to retain it. The rollers are identical, they just differ in how they are attached. I found the roller listed on Macsautoparts and the part numbers are on the picture."

Nyles had this to say also regarding that one picture that shows a new white roller just sitting there out of position. "I set a roller on the window frame just as a comparison for the 2 rollers. The rollers themselves are interchangeable. The way they are mounted is totally different. The one that has a guide attached to the roller, slides in the lower track. The other roller has a shaft that is inserted into the frame."

Thanks also for the additional information, Dave ~ simplyconnected.

If I understand this correctly, the white plastic rollers (Part# 29898) shown in these pix are not the same as the window regulator posts roller assembly with the retaining clip and conical washer, spring and flat washer (Part# 23240) on them. Regarding these two large rollers in the pix below, Nyles said these larger white rollers are only used on the ¼ windows and are basically what makes the quarter window go part way UP and then switch direction to go FORWARD to meet up with the door glass. These two big plastic rollers could also cause adjustment problems if they are warped, worn or broken. If you go through the adjustment procedure trying to get the adjustment right, check all those rollers on that window system.

[Anders]

Does anyone knows what material these are made of? Metal or plastic? http://www.macsautoparts.com/ford_th..._Category_Door

[YellowRose]

Brass Window Rollers?

I just spoke with a parts guy at Mac's. According to the catalog he was reading from the roller itself is made of nylon.... So there ya go! That should answer the question regarding that item that Mac's sells... The unit that CASCO sells for the '55-'57 Tbirds (which also fits the '58-'60 Tbirds) is 23240M Description Window Roller-All Metal.

[Anders]

I just spoke with a parts guy at Mac's. According to the catalog he was reading from the roller itself is made of nylon.... So there ya go! That should answer the question regarding that item that Mac's sells... The unit that CASCO sells for the '55-'57 Tbirds (which also fits the '58-'60 Tbirds) is 23240M Description Window Roller-All Metal.

How can we check that? And also, are they the same size?

[YellowRose]

Brass Window Rollers?

Anders, if you are asking how can we check whether or not these parts are made of nylon or metal, the answer is this. Their information regarding these parts state they are made of nylon, for the Mac's one and of metal for the CASCO one. As for the size, they are stated to be the same size as the part #'s given for our Squarebirds. (Part# 23240) BA-7023240-A for the '58-'59 and C0AB6423240-B for the 1960 Squarebird.

[Richard Honeycutt]

CASCO Metal Window Rollers

I tried ordering a set of metal window rollers from CASCO. They show them in the catalog and I added them to my cart, but when I tried to check out the cart shows nothing added. I tried several times, so I'm wondering if they are no longer available. Any one ordered them lately?
Regards,
Richard Honeycutt
Blue Angel

[YellowRose]

Brass Window Rollers?

I would suggest that you call CASCO tomorrow double check on these rollers. They might still have some. It would not hurt to make a call.

[Eric S]

Asking Bird Nest about brass or metal rollers availability, Don replied the following :
The metal window rollers are not available. The metal rollers damage the tracks as they gouge into the metal over time.

I would assume metal from the window mechanism would "gouge" into plastic rollers much faster !?

[partsetal]

The metal rollers were original from new, and having dismantled many window mechanisms I have never seen one track damaged from roller wear. I've seen bent tracks, broken tracks and tracks damaged from broken rollers but none damaged from roller wear. Interesting!