This will take you to the main site where there is history, technical information and other information on these cars.
This takes you back to the main page of the forums.
This is the control panel to change your password, information and preferences on this message board.
Click here if your lost your password or need to register on this message board. You must be a registered user to post. Registration is free.
Search this board for information you need.
Click here to buy cool Squarebirds mechandise.
Click here to support Squarebirds.org. For $20 annually receive 20mBytes webspace, a Squarebirds e-mail address and member's icon on the message board.
  #21  
Old 11-01-2017, 02:16 PM
jopizz's Avatar
jopizz jopizz is offline
Excellent Auto Mechanic for over 40 years.
 
Join Date: Nov 23 2009
Posts: 4,874
jopizz is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deanj View Post
the shop just does the same thing-take it off and re-seal with the same stuff-then wait for the result.
Tire beads are self sealing. There's no sealant that should be used. Other than some soapy water there shouldn't be anything else used when mounting tires. If the bead doesn't seal on the new rim then your tire is the problem, not the rim.

John
__________________
John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator
1959 Convertible

Thunderbird Registry #36223
jopizz@verizon.net 856-779-9695

http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 11-01-2017, 02:40 PM
simplyconnected's Avatar
simplyconnected simplyconnected is offline
Slow Typist
 
Join Date: May 26 2009
Posts: 7,156
simplyconnected is on a distinguished road
Default

At Ford, our tire machines mount all the tires with the rim face up. First, they spritz soap on the tire (there is no brush or rag involved). Then the tire falls on the rim. A 'crowder' pushes the tire to one side, then rollers 'fold' both tire beads over the rim at once. Next, the inflation machine shoots air into the bead to fill the tire. That part takes a blink of an eye. We never remove the valve stem cap. They must do at least five completely mounted and balanced tires per minute, just to keep up with the assembly line speed.

These guys in the tire stores are good but we do our tires using nothing but automation. Mistakes? Out of over 4,000 (yep, 800 cars times 5 tires) per day in each assembly plant, about three get torn. Ford only pays ~$20/per tire.

I had an old tire that wouldn't stay inflated. I 'broke it down' and used Silicone II around the bead. Once applied, let it 'skin over' for 15 minutes before inflating. That gives conformity to irregularities between the tire and rim while allowing excess RTV to come out. - Dave
__________________
My latest project:
CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

"We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
--Lee Iacocca
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 11-01-2017, 04:35 PM
Deanj Deanj is offline
Experienced
 
Join Date: Nov 26 2015
Posts: 377
Deanj is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by simplyconnected View Post
I had an old tire that wouldn't stay inflated. I 'broke it down' and used Silicone II around the bead. Once applied, let it 'skin over' for 15 minutes before inflating. That gives conformity to irregularities between the tire and rim while allowing excess RTV to come out. - Dave
I'm willing to try that at the store. I don't know what they do with tires that won't seal other than what they did.

But if my tire leaks on the whitewall outside and if that side is down when these guys try to re-seal, how do you see what your doing in order to seal the bottom (outside) bead?

Dean
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 11-02-2017, 06:32 PM
Deanj Deanj is offline
Experienced
 
Join Date: Nov 26 2015
Posts: 377
Deanj is on a distinguished road
Default

Dave, your RTV worked!

The bead was damaged badly where it was leaking. When I suggested to the shop owner this might result from not mounting the tire inside up, they said their machine couldn't mount it that way due to the wheel's inherent design. It must mount this wheel outside up. Somebody's wrong here.

Anyhow, they put a large bead of RTV, waited an hour to get everything good and dry, and then re-mounted the tire (outside up). It's not leaking. I think the shop learned something, too!

Dean
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 11-02-2017, 06:49 PM
jopizz's Avatar
jopizz jopizz is offline
Excellent Auto Mechanic for over 40 years.
 
Join Date: Nov 23 2009
Posts: 4,874
jopizz is on a distinguished road
Default

I'm not sure what type of machine they have but all the old style machines I've seen can mount them either way. As for the RTV I agree it can fill some imperfections in the rim but I'm not sure about fixing a damaged bead in the tire. It remains to be seen whether it can survive the wear and tear of normal driving.

John
__________________
John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator
1959 Convertible

Thunderbird Registry #36223
jopizz@verizon.net 856-779-9695

http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 11-02-2017, 07:43 PM
simplyconnected's Avatar
simplyconnected simplyconnected is offline
Slow Typist
 
Join Date: May 26 2009
Posts: 7,156
simplyconnected is on a distinguished road
Default

Glad I could save your tire, Deanj.

Believe it, John. Silicone is impervious to extreme hot and cold. It also flexes easier than rubber. The best part is, it comes off easily when the bead is separated, not like glue.

My method does not include waiting an hour. I wait about 15 minutes max, just enough time for the surface to skin over. If an area is too thick, I want the liquid center to ooze out the sides. This leaves a perfectly formed filler for the voids.

When applying, smear it into the rubber and the rim. Don't just put a round 3/8" bead around the assembly and wait an hour.

Another trick I uses is to do the above, fill the tire so the bead seats, then deflate the tire and wait another 20 minutes. Again, the idea is, I don't want to lose all the liquid RTV. If the void is excessive, all the liquid RTV will be forced out when 32-PSI of air is behind it. - Dave

EDIT: As a side note, I use RTV for lots of things. It's rubbery and springy, it won't rust, it's dielectric, etc...
One time, my brother-in-law had an American Motors 'fishbowl' Pacer with a broken stop light switch. Of course, it was Sunday and all stores were closed. Anyway, he won't drive a car without stop lights. So, I dissected the switch. It had a broken contact and the spring behind it was also broken. This contact 'bridged' two contacts. So, I cut a piece of #14 solid wire (from Romex), built a small cardboard form, placed the wire in the bottom and covered the top of the wire with RTV. An hour later, I removed the cardboard and let the rest cure.

Room Temperature Vulcanize cures with moisture (yes, it cures nicely under water). Humid, warm temperatures and better air-flow speed up the process.

When I pared the cured RTV with common razor blade and stuck 'my invention' into the switch housing, it worked flawlessly. Actually, it worked until the car finally died many years later.
__________________
My latest project:
CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

"We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
--Lee Iacocca

Last edited by simplyconnected : 11-02-2017 at 08:12 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 11-02-2017, 09:09 PM
jopizz's Avatar
jopizz jopizz is offline
Excellent Auto Mechanic for over 40 years.
 
Join Date: Nov 23 2009
Posts: 4,874
jopizz is on a distinguished road
Default

I have nothing against RTV. It's great stuff and has plenty of uses. However if I have a choice between trusting the lives of me and my family on a $5.00 tube of RTV holding air in a tire or spending $75-100 on a new tire I think I'll go the new tire route. I'm funny that way.

John
__________________
John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator
1959 Convertible

Thunderbird Registry #36223
jopizz@verizon.net 856-779-9695

http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 11-02-2017, 10:06 PM
simplyconnected's Avatar
simplyconnected simplyconnected is offline
Slow Typist
 
Join Date: May 26 2009
Posts: 7,156
simplyconnected is on a distinguished road
Default

Silicone II is made by General Electric. If it's good enough for NASA, it's good enough for me. We all depend on silicone sealer whether you know it or not. We depend on urethane as well. Your whole windshield is held in by a simple bead of urethane.

BTW, confidence in tire sealer isn't any different from a valve stem that also cost five bucks for all four of them. - Dave
__________________
My latest project:
CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

"We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
--Lee Iacocca
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 11-02-2017, 10:25 PM
jopizz's Avatar
jopizz jopizz is offline
Excellent Auto Mechanic for over 40 years.
 
Join Date: Nov 23 2009
Posts: 4,874
jopizz is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by simplyconnected View Post
If it's good enough for NASA, it's good enough for me.
Luckily they don't have any Northeast potholes in space. LOL

John
__________________
John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator
1959 Convertible

Thunderbird Registry #36223
jopizz@verizon.net 856-779-9695

http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 11-03-2017, 10:57 AM
Deanj Deanj is offline
Experienced
 
Join Date: Nov 26 2015
Posts: 377
Deanj is on a distinguished road
Default

Gentlemen, this operation was more principle and determination. I didn't learn the bead was damaged until we tried the RTV. Until then this 3000 mile tire just wasn't sealing on a rusty wheel, which I thought the culprit, and then wouldn't seal on a newly refinished wheel.

These Coker Nostalgia tires are not $75 tires. They cost over $200 each worth it or not. If I thought a blowout a possibility, I would scrap the tire. I think the problem could revert to a slow leak. As much as the $200 price affected my decision to try and save the tire, I might have gone for 4 different overpriced wide whitewalls size P225 75R 14, if these exist, just to try to put everything right. (It seems the 225 size is an issue in American Classic and Goodrich.

Well, it's done and the "Forum" came through again.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:40 AM.

Driving, racing or working on cars can be hazardous. The procedures and advice on this website including the message board are opinion only. Squarebirds.org and its webmasters and contributors do not guarantee the correctness of the advice and procedures. The Squarebirds.org and its webmasters assume no liability for any damage, fines, punishment, injury or death resulting from following these procedures or advice. If you do not have the skills or tools to repair your car, please consult a professional. By using this site you agree to hold harmless the Squarebirds.org, its authors and its webmasters from any resulting claim and costs that may occur from using the information found on this site.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Any submissions to this site and any post on this site becomes property of Squarebirds.org . The webmasters reserve the right to edit and modify any submissions to this site. All material on this is site is copyrighted by the Squarebirds.org. Reproduction by any means other than for personal use is strictly prohibited. Permission to use material on this site can be obtained by contacting the webmasters. Copyright 2002-2016 by Squarebirds.org.