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  #1  
Old 06-21-2013, 08:00 PM
muffinman muffinman is offline
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Default 1964 Thunderbird starter

Hey guys,

My wife inherited a '64 Thunderbird from her grandfather a few years ago and we've made the decsion to sell it as I do not really have the time or the money to finish fixing it, I wish I did though. It will be a few years before I can start fixing it up, but I know its condition will worsen as I do not really have a good place of storing it until then.

This is the car:


We had the car running, however it always started slowly. Like the starter didnt have enough torque to turn the fly wheel. However with a charged battery we could get it to start a number of times until last week. We had it running eariler in the day, but after working on it some we tryed to start it again but had no luck. I just heard clicking from the solenoid/contactor or perhaps the starter itself. We tried jumping it but it was still the same, still clicking. I replaced the solenoid, but that did not fix the problem.

This is the starter:


I've never seen the bendix on this starter before. As you know, Im sure, most starters have the bendix inside the housing and it pops out when starting a car. But it seems that this starter retracts toward the end of the shaft when the starter dis-engages from the flywheel. So it's basically opposite of the way starters are now.

My question is if the bendix can break and lock itself in the engaged position and never disengage from the flywheel? If thats the case, then it would cause the flywheel to never pick up enough speed to be able to operate properly. I looked around some part stores locally and none of them carry the bendix. Most had never seen a bendix like this.

I assume the starter is probably bad and I need to replace it. Is there somewhere, that you guys know of, that I can buy the whole thing as a assembly or where I can buy the bendix parts? Most part stores seem to have the starter in a wearhouse, just not the bendix.

Let me know your thoughts.

Thanks
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  #2  
Old 06-21-2013, 08:53 PM
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jopizz jopizz is offline
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I'm thinking by the symptoms you describe that the starter needs to be rebuilt. Most of the time the brushes are worn to the point where there's not enough power to turn the flywheel. Or the springs are rusted and broken which is very common. They aren't that difficult to repair. The springs, brushes and bushings are very inexpensive and readily available. If you aren't comfortable doing it yourself then there are machine shops that will usually do it for less money then buying a new one. The bendix drives are available but they are about $60-65. I really don't think that's your problem though. If you hook it up to a battery you should be able to see if the drive is retracting.

John
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  #3  
Old 06-21-2013, 09:42 PM
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Default 1964 Thunderbird starter

The subject of rebuilding a starter was just covered on the Squarebirds Forum. Here is a link to it. The information in the link "Click Here" will probably help you a lot if you decide to rebuild it yourself. It also might help you understand more about the Bendix, etc.. Check Post #7 in this thread below.

http://www.squarebirds.org/vbulletin...ad.php?t=15270
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  #4  
Old 06-22-2013, 02:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muffinman View Post
Hey guys,
I assume the starter is probably bad and I need to replace it. Is there somewhere, that you guys know of, that I can buy the whole thing as a assembly or where I can buy the bendix parts? Most part stores seem to have the starter in a wearhouse, just not the bendix.

Let me know your thoughts.

Thanks
Make sure your battery and ground leads are properly secure where they connect (including the starter solenoid) and make sure they have a good clean connection.

Likewise the lead that bolts to the starter.
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  #5  
Old 06-22-2013, 03:58 AM
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rockauto.com has only one left for your '64 Tbird so you better hurry:

REMY Part # 25214 Premium; Remanufactured (Only 1 Remaining) * Stocked in outlying warehouse--shipping delayed up to 2 business days.

When you call, find out if this motor comes with a Bendix gear. Sometimes they don't.
Here are starter drives for that motor ranging from $61-$65:
STANDARD MOTOR PRODUCTS Part # SDN11
AIRTEX Part # 2K1016

$45.79 -starter motor
$15.00 -core
$60.79 -total
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Old 07-16-2014, 04:08 PM
Jonesy Jonesy is offline
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Cool almost same a muffinman

Hi everyone- newbie here...

I have the almost the same as Muffinman- Dad inherited his pop's 1964 T and he's 81 and I'm an oldie too..and we are going to sell car to a good home...Dad has kept car in garage..great condition inside and out...one little tiny problem...hasn't driven it in years...about 13...that's how long we were caring for my mom- 13 years of dementia-at home. She passed last yr and dad and I are too old and have health issues..so we have great mechanics that my friend who is part of the Chicago Thunderbird Club suggested and they've been going through the steps to get her to run again...so far so good...until...the starter. Got a new one...mechanics were ready to put it on..and oops...where's the gear? The what? The gear-flywheel? So yep...we ordered the flywheel from SMP same product number as listed below. Back come the mechanics ready to put it together and well....they couldn't get the pin on the top of the flywheel to fit into the pin hole because the pin hole is a half a circle instead of a full circle.
They worked on it and worked on it...like Rubic's cube to no avail. Bumper to Bumper where we ordered it from called SMP and they were sort of helpful...but not totally....they got the
thing half way dismantled except for the pin situation. Chicago Thunderbird Club members said one of the best site is here so jump on and someone should be able to assist. I've looked at the threads and photos...alas...none really explain how to get that pin in the pinhole. Help..anyone?
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  #7  
Old 07-16-2014, 04:37 PM
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I've seen many starters and drives for a 1962-64 T-Bird but I've never seen one with a half moon hole. Which part has the half moon hole, the drive or the starter shaft. These pictures are the one's listed on Rockauto. They appear to be correct. You have to put the end of the drive in a vise and push on it to make the entire hole visible so you can get the pin in.

John
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1964drive.jpg (6.0 KB, 43 views)
File Type: jpg 1964starter.jpg (12.5 KB, 44 views)
File Type: jpg starter.jpg (144.3 KB, 44 views)
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Last edited by jopizz : 07-16-2014 at 04:48 PM.
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  #8  
Old 07-16-2014, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesy View Post
... I've looked at the threads and photos...alas...none really explain how to get that pin in the pinhole...
Welcome to Squarebirds.org, Jonesy. I'm from Chicago, too. Well, 6000W. (Austin Ave.) and 500N. (Chicago Ave.) in Oak Park.

I did a full writeup on this starter motor, Yellowrose mentioned it but you could not have read it.

Here is the site again, with 73 pictures:
http://home.comcast.net/~Y-Block/Y-B...or/default.htm

For the drive gear DISassembly, start at picture #40.
For drive gear assembly, start at picture #63.

I used no fancy vise or unusual tools. I simply set up a small workmate bench outside my garage and went at the starter motor because this is a dirty job.

I'm sure the answer you need is there. If not, ask more questions. BTW, I have to agree with John, there are no half-round holes or pins in any Ford starter motor.



Your Thunderbird guys use the exact same starter motor in Y-blocks and FE engines. They should be VERY familiar with this motor if they have any experience at all. We also used this motor in Flathead Ford engines. Inertia starter drives are returned by the flex plate or flywheel, spinning faster than the starter drive. - Dave
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Last edited by simplyconnected : 07-16-2014 at 06:43 PM.
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  #9  
Old 07-16-2014, 06:34 PM
Jonesy Jonesy is offline
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Hi there-

The drive, I believe. I was trying to send photos..but alas, I'm not that computer savvy.

The instruction sheet is a big help. I think this is what they will need. Thank you. I'll show this to Dad and report back tomorrow.

Thank you again.
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  #10  
Old 07-16-2014, 06:55 PM
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Default 1964 Thunderbird starter

Jolene, you have some of the best techies on here helping you. Check out the link that Dave posted. As for posting pix on this Forum, please read my Welcome to you that I posted in the New Members Welcoming Forum. It tells you how to go about posting pix on this Forum... If you can't figure them out, send them to me and I can post them for you. You will see my email address in my signature element below. Dave gave you the link to the starter rebuild in the Technical Resource Library. Any time you are looking for technical information, and you can't find it, remember to look in the TRL, the link to which is always under any post that I make. Good luck with the starter.
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Last edited by YellowRose : 07-16-2014 at 07:08 PM.
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