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  #1  
Old 03-03-2011, 04:59 PM
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Default ī58 Rear suspension "issues"

Does anyone know, or maybe have the heart to check on your own ī58, the length of the spacer ( metal tube ) that sits inside the two isolators on the rear axle. After m u c h work on all possibilities I have located the problem with my stiff rear end and limited suspension travel to this area. My isolators are the original rubber, meaning they are very hard after +50 years, but I know that my spacers are not original, so I need to find out the original length if I ever is to have the rear suspension working properly. I need to find some real soft isolators also, in order to get this work as it should.
On a bonus note, it would be interesting to know if you have the treads even to the nut or how far ( or how many treads ) you might have through the nut.
Thanks in advance,
Anders
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  #2  
Old 03-03-2011, 10:40 PM
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I'll measure and take pictures of my '58 but won't get to it until weekend after this one coming up. I'm not quite ready to disassemble everything. What do you need to do to offload this isolator to remove it?
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Old 03-04-2011, 01:32 AM
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Yes. It is quite simple and fast. But I recommend that you put notes on on the distance of the tread, so you can adjust it.
Iīts pretty simple. But you need to lift the car so you squeeze yourself in there

Thank you VERY much!!!

/Anders
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Old 03-04-2011, 12:20 PM
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Question

Are we talking tread of the tire or do you mean thread on the bolt??



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Old 03-04-2011, 03:54 PM
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Bolt Just to give an estimation about how hard or loose they are adjusted.
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Old 03-04-2011, 08:02 PM
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This one?


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Old 03-07-2011, 03:30 PM
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Dave,

Your box (parallelogram) is a great visual in this case. Each corner of the box must pivot for the suspension to travel. Anchor one corner and it will lock the box and there will be no movement.

In your diagram points (A) 5549, (C) (D) 5500 are obvious pivot points, not so obvious is (B) 5555. See my attached red-line. In order for 5555 to pivot, bushing 5537 has to allow vertical travel. If the spacer 5540 is too long or this point is bolted tight, this corner is anchored and the suspension binds or locks the box.

This was Anders orginal observation, too tight and there's only 2" of travel, the looser he makes it, the move travel he gains. Make sense?

Hopefully Anders can find the infromation he needs from Rare Parts.

EDIT: these bushings 5537 are actually acting like coil springs, in that case the spacer lenght should not be as big a worry, if the bushings were reproduced, maybe the hardness of the bushing is too great, like have too high a spring rate that they can't be compressed. Looking at the photos Carl supplied, that looks more like the bushing height I'm use to seeing, I was surpised to see the lower bushing listed as being 2" tall, in Carl's photos, it's been compressed quite a bit.
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Last edited by GTE427 : 03-07-2011 at 04:04 PM.
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Old 03-07-2011, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTE427 View Post
...Anchor one corner and it will lock the box... ...If the spacer 5540 is too long or this point is bolted tight, this corner is anchored and the suspension binds or locks the box... ...these bushings 5537 are actually acting like coil springs...
Nice job on the drawing, Ken. I would really like to see a side-view of the pivot points. After re-thinking this system (in my long post), I totally agree with you.

5555 is a pillow block fixed to the lower arm (that the top portion pivots on). That's the key. In your drawing, it is noted that all the U-bolt and cradle parts are part of, and fixed to, the axle assembly.

Three mounting points on the lower arm will stop all pivoting. If the back rubbers are torqued tight and the wheel hits a bump or hole, the upper arm (C-D) will tend to snap off.

But, if we allow space between the rubbers, they will 'slap' and cause noise (in both directions). I'm still not comfortable with the center sleeve sliding in the lower arm hole steel. That's just plain wrong, and that is what messed me up.

But you're right, Ken... if the rubber assembly is designed to limit motion, they just transfer torque to the adjacent sides. That's wrong, too.

If this were my car and I HAD to live with this setup, I would omit the rubber assembly altogether and run with nothing back there. I do not see what purpose the rubber serves, that the shocks don't already cover. - Dave
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Old 03-07-2011, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simplyconnected View Post
Nice job on the drawing, Ken. I would really like to see a side-view of the pivot points. After re-thinking this system (in my long post), I totally agree with you.

5555 is a pillow block fixed to the lower arm (that the top portion pivots on). That's the key. In your drawing, it is noted that all the U-bolt and cradle parts are part of, and fixed to, the axle assembly.

Three mounting points on the lower arm will stop all pivoting. If the back rubbers are torqued tight and the wheel hits a bump or hole, the upper arm (C-D) will tend to snap off.

But, if we allow space between the rubbers, they will 'slap' and cause noise (in both directions). I'm still not comfortable with the center sleeve sliding in the lower arm hole steel. That's just plain wrong, and that is what messed me up.

But you're right, Ken... if the rubber assembly is designed to limit motion, they just transfer torque to the adjacent sides. That's wrong, too.

If this were my car and I HAD to live with this setup, I would omit the rubber assembly altogether and run with nothing back there. I do not see what purpose the rubber serves, that the shocks don't already cover. - Dave
Weīre talking about what might happend at work today, and we guessed that it might make the tire to jump on heavy acceleration or sudden stop. The shocks and springs helps of course, but there is no way Ford put this on if they didnīt needed it. No matter how stupid it looks.
A little comment to you guess what happend if it is too tight and the car hits a bump or a hole, the control arm donīt snap, but all forces goes strait to the front position bolt and the chassie, and that is just what have happend in the past. Interesting is that the bolts seems to be bulletproof as they are still strait, and the threads works like new. And they ARE original. On booth sides of this holes, someone in the past have velded bigger square "washers" to the subframe as extra streingth and support. Original is smaller round ones. Upon that, on one side, the bolt of the inside of the subframe, got loose, and took a piece of the frame in the process. Strong forces, no doubt.

Now today I vent to the place who helped me with the vulcanisation of the upper control arms bushings and talked about making new isolators for the rear. The softest they can come up with is 35-40 Shore. I donīt know if these are to soft or hard, but I am thinking of let them make two set, so I can "take out parts" with waterjet in one set. That way, I would get a even softer pair to play with.
The big deal is that I now finally understand the whole system and know where to fine tune the whole "thang"

Rare Parts did come back today, but only with a picture of the parts, not with and information regarding the hardness of the rubber. But I sended that question back, so maybe tomorrow?

Love you guys! You are a great support!!! My fellow "US-old-car friends" at work, who owns Babybirds, Torinos, Rancheros and even Chryslers envy me alot because of this forum. I like that


Some "before pics" showing how it looked before when the bushings was all gone in the control arms. You see how the lack of bushings took up the play... Note one of these "nests" I have all over the car. Found one in the front suspension, and to in the rear suspension just 2 weeks ago. So far the total is up at 15 or so by now... Further down, The control arms before, and after.
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File Type: jpg IMG_3932.jpg (334.0 KB, 110 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_5353.jpg (425.2 KB, 110 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_5347-1.jpg (402.1 KB, 109 views)
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Last edited by Anders : 03-07-2011 at 05:41 PM.
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Old 03-07-2011, 06:34 PM
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Here is a picture showing how it looks. You see without the bolt and isolators the whole rear axle drops quite a bit. I guess the bolt and nut at least prevent the rear axle to drop all this... As it looks here, I can easy push it up against the exhaust pipes.
The smaller isolator ( rubber ) is located above the trailer arm ( black ) and under the rear axle part that is not painted here, and the thick under the black arm. So they kind of takes up the "end" of the movement. The upper for when the car bumps down, and the lower, when the car goes up.
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Last edited by Anders : 03-07-2011 at 06:43 PM.
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