Engine reinstall with or w/o trans?

[orwin]

I originally pulled the engine (430) out with the trans attached, per the service manual. It was scary (probably 1000 lb) coming out.

Now after $$$$ on bodywork and paint, I'm wondering if I should install the trans first (from below) and then install the engine.

Anyone want to share experience on this?

Thanks,

John

[DKheld]

I know exactly what you mean. The 352 alone was scary enough over 40 year old paint.

I'm sure when they were built they were installed as a unit but the factory probably had a tiny bit better hoist

If I have to do it over again I will pull them separately (aka I'm CHICKEN).

Never done it this way bit is it easier to attach the transmission to the hoist and lower it in rather than coming in from the bottom?

Hope to hear others ideas.....

Eric

[jopizz]

In my opinion it's certainly easier and you risk less damage having the trans already in place and just dropping in the engine. I believe the factory had a large pit under the car so there was plenty of room for the transmission and a worker could jockey it in place.

John

[Yadkin]

I actually installed the engine with the transmission already in place by myself, twice. It's a lot harder with the two already connected.

[orwin]

Thanks for info - They will go back in separately. Here's a pic of it coming out in 2007, now ready to go back in soon! The accessories are on the engine just for the picture.

John

[Sherman]

I put the 352 in mine with the transmission attached. If I had to do It again I'd separate the two. It was such a relief when it finally found its place in the engine compartment.

[partsetal]

I've installed a 430 with trans using an "A" frame with a chain fall. The angles needed to get them in position were demanding and required raising the car. I had help with this one but would not do it again. I do them separately now, and the 430 engine is a chore for the 1 1/2 ton floor crane. I've removed 352's together using a bucket loader but that becomes messy when you tip the trans at a steep angle. I prefer to do them separately and can do them by myself.
Carl

[DKheld]

John - that engine is a work of art - very nice. Bet it's going to run as good as it looks.

(whew - think I'm off the hook - looks like nobody noticed the logo on my fender protector)

Eric

[simplyconnected]

Right off the bat, know that engine decking requires a learning curve. The factory has proper equipment and facilities, to drop engines with transmissions in moving cars, at the rate of one per minute. Yes, two guys work very closely, each knowing exactly what the other will do next. This job is far too dangerous for rookies and 'mavericks'.

The cars were freshly painted before the engine and trans were installed because to do it any other way makes no sense.

Squarebird bodies are different than most Ford cars, where all the bellhousing bolts are easily accessible. For this reason, it makes sense that traditionally, the engine and transmission are installed in an offline subassembly. There simply isn't enough real estate to keep all engine, trans and Final Dress combinations at the main assembly line.

'Final Dress' includes the generator, starter motor, power steering pump, air conditioning compressor and all the belts and pulleys. The engine and trans comes to the line totally ready with Final Dress complete and of course, the engine has exhaust manifolds installed.

Aligning the automatic flex plate with torque converter requires rotating the engine by hand before tightening the four nuts. This is much easier when the engine and trans are out in the open with plenty of space to work.

The bottom line is 'safety'. If you do not have a mechanic 'partner' or your equipment isn't heavy enough for the job or maybe you simply don't have the confidence to drop the engine & trans together, don't do it. That is how I prefer doing this job because I do have help and my hoist is a two-ton (with plenty of safety buffer). My engine and trans go from the test stand, right into the engine bay. - Dave

[Guest]

The consensus seems to be that whether we're talking about the 352 OR the 430, it's preferable to separate them from the tranny before removal and put them back together in the car. I think my engine (a 352) is going to be coming out soon so, unless you all disagree, I intend to separate them before removal and reunite them in the car after the engine has been reworked. Right? My friend and I already pulled them both (as one unit) and put them back in (as one unit) when the trans was rebuilt .... and it was spooky!

[simplyconnected]

Roger, be careful with 'consensus', especially when pondering safety issues. What may be safe for me may not be safe for someone else.

Adequate equipment and facilities are a 'must have' when pulling engines. If your hoist, chains and tools are safe enough, an engine & trans can be pulled in your driveway. Procedures and experience also play big roles. For instance, NEVER put any part of your body in a pinch point because you have everything to lose and nothing to gain.

With my cherry picker, I feel very safe with the engine & trans hoisted above my head. I wouldn't trust an 'unknown' hoist, even if someone says it's ok. Try raising a load for yourself and see how stable it is. If it seems 'rickety' or the bushings are sloppy, stop and back out of the situation. Take your time and use all your senses to 'watch' everything. Use common sense. Nylon slings can easily cut through on sharp edges where welded-link chains will hold. I never use that stupid plate that bolts to the intake manifold. Instead, I bolt directly to the heads using a spreader bar that straddles the carburetor. - Dave

[Guest]

Dave - Your comments about safety are well taken. There is no car that's worth a trip to the hospital or the morgue. In my case, my mechanic and his hoist have proven safe and reliable through a number of engine extractions.

In the past, when a tranny or an engine needed serious work, it has been my practice to pull and replace everything as one unit, using a hoist. I was surprised to see that many other members split the combo into two pieces.

My question: should I remove and replace them as one unit -- or split them into two? Am I making any unforeseen problems for myself by breaking them at the bell housing? I've seen many comments already saying that they have - or will - split 'em. Of those guys who have already done this, what has been your choice and experience?

[jopizz]

If you were going to rebuild the transmission then I would do them as a unit if I had the correct equipment and enough help. Since you said that the transmission was already rebuilt I don't see why you would want to remove it again. You will have to remove the transmission mount and drive shaft for no reason. Plus you will have to drain the transmission or you will have fluid everywhere.

John

[simplyconnected]

Whether the engine/trans are in or out of the car, they still need to be split.

Is it easier to do this with the trans in the car? In my experience, it's much easier to align and rotate the assembly outside the car. Again, that's my experience.

I don't force or use bellhousing bolts to align the torque converter. I simply slide the converter all the way on the trans, then offer the studs to the flex plate. Pay close attention to the torque converter drain plugs. They mate with the flex plate holes every 180-degrees. Give the assembly a 'shake' as the two parts come closer together. When you get one nut started, rotate the crank and everything will nearly fall into place. At this point I start bellhousing bolts, evenly turning them in by hand as I 'shake' the assembly closed. Keep rotating the crank to gain access to the converter nuts for tightening.

To do this while the engine is in the car is a headache because the trans is heavy, it doesn't cooperate easily and space is cramped.

I prefer to spend as little time under the car as practical. While the driveshaft is out, check the 'U' joints. Now is the time to change them if necessary.

I have to confess, I have a spare yoke that I slide onto the transmission output shaft so it won't leak. I wire it in place and make sure the torque converter stays in the input side. If I transport the trans, I use a steel plate that holds the converter in place as it bolts to the bellhousing (much the same as the factory does it). - Dave