Generator Light - On Steady

[JohnG]

If you do decide to buy one, try walking into an auto parts store such as a Federated one - Gonzalez is a chain in San Antonio. I have gotten a ton of engine parts over the counter with a 24 hr or less wait. Let's see: starter, water pump, distributor, valves, pistons, cam, tune up components. While the Squarebird is a short lived car, the motors are most common. As you mention, the shipping costs add up. But I hope you find a good electric shop as a first option.

John

[bcomo]

My generator has a double belt pulley, I think because of the Power Steering and A/C. I believe that this makes the shaft longer than a generator with a single belt pulley. I don't know whether you can use the same generator, and just swap the pulleys. Anyone have a handle on that one?

[JohnG]

My 58 (which is a 352) has Power Steering but no AC. The generator is a single pulley while there is an extra pulley on the end of the crank shaft for the power steering. My belt goes around the water pump, crank and generator. If I had the PS hooked up (I don't...) it would go around the add-on pulley on the crank and the PS pulley.

You have a 430??? We might put a post on the MEL area and see what differences there are between the 430 setup and the 352. What is currently hooked around your generator for belts???

[bcomo]

John:

Generator has a 2 slot pulley with 2 belts going around the Harmonic Balancer (with 3 slot pulley) and then around the Fan/WaterPump (with 3 slot pulley).

A/C has 1 belt going around the Fan/water Pump pulley.
P/S has 1 belt going around the Harmonic Balancer pulley.

I called the T-Bird Club Pres. in town, and he highly recommended a shop that has done generator rebuilds for the club. I called them this AM and they gave me a quote of between $60 to $100 to rebuild mine -- AND they said -- "Bring your regulator so that we can tune it to your generator after we rebuild it". Very good news!!!

I did the final voltage reading directly from the ARM stud on the generator to ground -- I got 2.5 volts -- so it's time to drop the generator. I soaked all of the bolts with PB Blaster and have them loosened. The temperature in Texas is 95 degrees, which means working in the early AM only.

I'm thinking that Ford should have made the driver seat "fully reclining", because I've spent more time laying down under the car than in the sitting position.

[JohnG]

good work! That shop sounds like a winner!!!

Now for the really good news: when you get the generator back and want to re-install it, it is really, really annoying!! Or you grow a third hand between now and then...

[Dan Leavens]

Gentlemen, I am reading with much interest your exchange on the " Generator Light". Although you two are far more advanced technically than I, I am learning more and more about this subject. I too, had the generator light on the 58,on more than off until I had my guy check the brushes and once cleaned thororughly, the light only comes on occasionally. I also had him set the idle a little higher, of course not too high to have the tranny " clunk & lurch" as I wanted the peddle a little friendlier to the carb, as my wife drives as well.
I have size 12 she of course has size 5. Works well, when we pack for a holiday, as her shoes go inside mine and then we have more room for the golf clubs in the trunk.
Anyway, this is excellent stuff and will follow closely. This by the way, is why this site " is miles ahead " of any others.

Dano Calgary,Alberta Canada

[bcomo]

I agree. This site has helped me through many mysteries. The great part about it is that all of the participants contribute not only their T-Bird expertise, but also their own way of problem solving. Sometimes all that it takes is one suggestion to solve the problem.

I have an idea on how to remove and replace the Generator without growing the third hand. If it works on removal, I'll write it up.

I should probably write up a separate post in simple terms on what I learned about testing the Generator and Regulator using a voltmeter. The Shop Manual is good, but really a bit much if you just want to know what the charge system is basically doing. Do you think?

[Dan Leavens]

Bart excellent idea, as not all of us as mentioned are mechanically inclined. In somewhat simple terms, our members can print and keep on file for any future concerns. as my file is getting quite large.

Dano Calgary,Alberta Canada

[bcomo]

There is one BIG unanswered question that maybe someone can answer--

The generator light will only go OUT IF there is at least 12 volts coming from the Generator to the regulator to the ARM terminal on the regulator.

That voltage closes the cutout relay contact (top contact marked BATT) in the regulator and makes the light go out-- OK thats fine.

BUT that's kind of reverse logic -- the light is on when it doesn't get 12 Volts, but goes off when it does get 12 Volts.

My question is -- What is there is the circuit that makes that reversal happen ? Any electrical folks out there????

[Guest]

I'm not an elec. guy. But i do know the bottom brush gets stuck in its holder from moistre. We don't drive these everyday
do we????? I put elec. tape over the hole on top of the gen it seems to be workin. No more light after i cleaned it.

[bcomo]

tbirds8 --

How did you clean the brush holder to get it unstuck? Did you have to remove the generator, or did you do it some other way -- contact cleaner, etc.? That would be good to know.

Thanks

[bcomo]

Generator Light - How It Works

Here is how the generator light works:

The generator light has two leads. One lead goes to the "hot" side of the ignition switch, where it get +12V. The other lead goes to the Armature (ARM) terminal at the regulator (smaller of the two yellow wires).

When the ignition key is turned on, but not started, the bulb gets power from the ignition switch, and is receiving a partial ground at the ARM terminal on the regulator.

Summary: The bulb goes on because it gets +12V from the ignition switch, and it gets partial ground (-) from the ARM terminal at the regulator. (+ to - = Bulb lights up)

When the engine is started, the ARM terminal receives +12V from the generator. Now the bulb sees +12V from the Ignition switch, and +12V from the ARM terminal at the regulator. (+ to + = Bulb goes off)

The bulb is in a constant state of "Tug-O-War" between the Ignition Switch +12V and the ARM terminal +12V. If the Generator puts out less than +12V, because of low RPM or loose belt, then the bulb will glow because there is less voltage on the ARM terminal and partially grounds the bulb again. (example: +12V at Ignition Switch to +11V at ARM Terminal = Bulb lights up).

So, at low engine RPM, in drive, at stop lights, the Generator Voltage output will normally fall below Battery Voltage at the Ignition Switch -- and the bulb goes on -- which is normal.

A light that stays on constantly means low generator voltage output directly from the generator.

Hope this helps.

[bcomo]

Generator Removal

I removed the Generator today in about 20 minutes.

The key to an easier AND safer removal was that I used two 1/4 by 2 inch bolts as "Saftey Pins" during the removal.

Here's what I did in sequence:

The day before -- use PB Blaster, on the two bolts and nuts holding the generator to the bracket, and the bolt that holds the belt tension. This makes it alot easier.

1. Disconect the Positive lead on the battery.

2. From the top, using a 9/16 wrench, loosen the bolt in front on the generator that holds the belt tension until you can feel the lock nut and washer spin free.

3. Jack the car up, and use jack stands.

4. Using two 3/8 small ignition wrenches, hold the bottom nut of each of the 3 generator stud wires and remove the top nuts. IMPORTANT: Mark the ground wire (furthest to the front) with a piece of tape. Dont' mix the Ground wire with the Field wire next to it when you re-install.

5. Using 11/16 and 5/8 box wrenches slightly loosen the two bolts and nuts that hold the generator to the bracket.

6. Swing the Generator up about 1 inch, and slide the fan belt(s) off of the pulley. Snug tighten the two bolts again with the generator in this 1 inch up position.

7. From the top, remove the belt tension bolt.

8. Use the two 1/4 by 2 inch bolts (Safety Pins) in this step --- Remove one Generator bolt/nut and insert a Safety Pin in the hole. Do the same with the other bolt/nut. The Generator is now hanging by the two Safety Pins.

Take a break -- wash your hands if they're greasy, because you need a good grip in the next step.

9. Brace the Generator with one hand and quickly remove the two Safety Pins. You now have control of the Generator with both hands.

10. You may have to rotate the Generator clockwise, so that the mounting lugs are UP, and then slide it down. Remember what postion it's in when it comes down -- it needs to go up the same way.

[Guest]

The most emportent thing is a clean comantater. And make sure the brushes are moving freely.That means OF and apart on the bench. Not a bad job. ............. Bill

[bcomo]

I took my generator and regulator to the shop today. They should give me word on what's wrong and how much to rebulid it in the next few days. I'm not looking forward to putting it back in. Should be fun.