'60 Automatic Convertible Top on a '59 Tbird

[YellowRose]

Carl ~ partsetal and I were having a discussion regarding the 4-Way Passenger Power Seat on elijahbird7's '59 Squarebird. He thought of a subject that no one had commented on before, when it was brought up on this Forum.

http://www.squarebirds.org/vbulletin...ad.php?t=15495

Where Sherman noted that his 59 had the automatic top as used on the 60's. No one picked up on that. We would love to hear from Alan or Fuz about this, and was surprised that neither said anything.

[Alan H. Tast, AIA]

Tracking down when during '59 production a factory-installed fully-automatic top became available is something people have talked about for decades. Many of the electrical parts for the system in the '60 Electrical Assembly Manual have a B9SF-prefix, but without having a period copy of the Master Parts Catalog that was issued during 1959 it's hard to determine when the system came on-line. There was mention of a fully-automatic top in some sales brochures issued mid-late model year, but no listings in parts catalogs or service bulletins available to us that gave information related to a date or serial number after which an automatic top system was placed in regular production. I had thought at one time that there was a serial number given that marked the change-over, but I haven't found it. It well could be it may be buried in a Technical Service Bulletin that I don't have in my collection or some parts catalog page that I haven't found.

Without having a confirmed, documented changeover date in the literature we had at our disposal, it was decided by the then-presiding Concours Director to not bring up the possibility of '59s with an automatic top, and instead continue to research the issue until difinitive, verifiable documentation could be obtained. And belive me, we had discussions about this.

[YellowRose]

'60 Automatic Convertible Top on a '59 Tbird

Alan, thank you for taking the time to respond to this. It is very much appreciated. I can imagine the time and effort it must take to try to obtain proof regarding items of this nature, that are difficult to locate information on. Especially after so much time has passed and records that have been discarded or destroyed. Thanks again for the information.

[jopizz]

Considering how many '59 convertibles Carl and I have owned over the years and how many dozens more we've seen I have my doubts whether any were built with the automatic top option. Sherman mentioned in his post that his car has a '60 VIN number so it seems that some of his parts were replaced over the years with '59 parts. I guess it's possible to contact the owner of the highest serial numbered '59 convertible known to exist and see if it has an automatic top. That would probably put this to rest.

John

[partsetal]

From the OFS in part..."VTCI has not yet found or been provided with documentation that a fully automatic convertible top was placed in late-1959 convertibles. VTCI encourages members to forward documentation that may help establish if and when automatic tops were placed in production in 1959. This includes collecting data from 1959 convertibles with information from the car's data plate, photographs of 1959s with automatic top and lid components, and any supporting documentation. Please send this information to the VTCI Technical Director or 1958-1960 Model Manager (see the Officer Addresses page toward the front of the current Thunderbird Scoop)"

If in fact Sherman is willing to provide photos, and data plate info, I think this issue is worthy of further investigation. I don't think ( I could be wrong!) anyone would want to swap a 59 set-up for the Automatic or convert a 59 HT to a 60 style convertible.
Carl

[YellowRose]

'60 Automatic Convertible Top on a '59 Tbird

It was cbnsingram who said his "59" Tbird had a '60 VIN #, not Sherman. Sherman said his IS a '59.

[jopizz]

Ray,

You are correct. I read the thread incorrectly. It is odd that no one asked him for more info when he described his car. He hasn't posted anything in quite a while so I wonder if he still has it.

John

[YellowRose]

'60 Automatic Convertible Top on a '59 Tbird

In checking the Tbird Registry, the latest VIN # listed for a 76A '59 Convertible is this.

http://www.tbirdregistry.com/viewdat...ryNumber=25634

The VIN # is H9YJ164422, out of 67,456 produced.

The next one back beyond that listed is this.

http://www.tbirdregistry.com/viewdat...ryNumber=10859

It would be nice if we could get in contact with these people to see if theirs had a '60 convertible set up. However, these are not all that close to the end of the '59 production run. The first one listed above is over 3,000 units from the last one run.

[jopizz]

Ray,

Coincidentally that car is for sale on Ebay. It does not have the automatic top.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-Thunderbird-Convertible-CONVERTIBLE-FACT-A-C-ALL-OPTIONS-IMMACULATE-FLA-/271336857025?forcerrptr=true&hash=item3f2cefddc1&item=271336857025&pt=US_Cars_Trucks

John

[YellowRose]

'60 Automatic Convertible Top on a '59 Tbird

I just PM'd Sherman to ask him if he still has his '59 and if so, if he would be willing to take pix of his '60 convertible set up, his data plate and document this for Alan and Fuz and the OFS. Sherman was last on the Forum in November. I will let ya'll know what he has to say...

[GTE427]

Some time ago I was researching this issue as the fully auto-top 59 Convertible controvery was offen discussed. I was keeping a list of 59 Convert VINs taken from sources like ebay and such, all were the traditional converts for 59.

The registry contained three 59 converts with later VIN numbers than I had. Working with John Rotella, he supplied me with the last known owners emails for those cars. None replied and I later stopped looking. Briefly looked for my notes and haven't located them. Wish I had more to add.

[tbird430]

I knew I'd heard of full-auto '59 convert's before. I just knew it... Of course I've never owned a conv't, so I have no documentation to prove anything.

-Jon in TX.

[YellowRose]

'60 Automatic Convertible Top on a '59 Tbird

How many of you on here own a 1959 Squarebird convertible that was produced in June, July or up to August 22, 1959, the last day of 1959 Squarebird production? If you do, please check to see if your Convertible '59 has the factory installed manual/semi-automatic convertible top set up, or the more automatic '60 factory installed convertible top set up. It is my understanding that the '59 version has the push button rear deck release and the '60 more automatic version has the push/pull handle. (Someone correct me if I am wrong) We are trying to find documentation on how many, if any, '59's left the factory at the end of the '59 production run with '60 style convertible set ups instead of the '59, as has long been rumored. The only one that I know of who says he has the '60 set up in his '59 is Sherman, and I am trying to get in contact with him.

If you have a '59 with a factory installed '60 convertible top set up, please take pictures of it, the VIN # and the data plate, and any Build/ROT/Gate Receipt or any paperwork that shows a '60 style factory installed convertible top set up in it.

[jopizz]

The one on Ebay has a build date of August 5 which is rather late in the production run. That's assuming that the data plate info is correct. It was reported that the plate had been reproduced although it certainly looks original to me as do the rivets.

John

[YellowRose]

'60 Automatic Convertible Top on a '59 Tbird

I also note that red '59 on eBay also has the 4-way passenger power seat! It would be interesting to know if it came from the factory that was or was added later. In the interior pix of it, I do not see any indication of the top control. I thought that the '60 top control was a push/pull lever over on the far side of the bottom of the instrument panel. Kinda like the pull lever for the emergency brake on the left side? I don't see that in any picture, nor do I see a push button control the '59's are supposed to have..