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Project Snowbird - 1960 Hardtop Disc Brake Upgrade

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  • Daleo56
    Experienced
    • Dec 27 2014
    • 315

    Project Snowbird - 1960 Hardtop Disc Brake Upgrade

    Now that the outside of the 1960 is done I am going to concentrate on the mechanical. First order of business is to upgrade to disc brakes. Based on all of my searches here I am installing the following parts:

    Scarebird Brake Brackets

    1983-97 S10 2WD brake calipers
    1968-69 Mustang front brake rotors
    ABS PowerBrake8" Dual Master Cylinder
    1969-1971 Camaro front brake hoses
    New inner/outer wheel bearings and seals
    Two 20" 3/16" brake lines with ends
    5/16" to 3/16" adapter
    3/16" to 3/16" to 1/8" pipe T-fitting
    1/8" to 1/8" pipe union
    3/16" end plug for original block

    I am starting late today so I will post steps over the next 24 hours as I complete the job.

    I also upgraded to 14" wheels from Summit Racing based on the feedback here.

    Step One: Get rid of the old stuff!



    Step Two: Scrape off all of the old dirt and clean the mating surfaces.



    Step Three: Test fit Scarebird brackets before painting.

    Last edited by YellowRose; June 23, 2015, 09:01 PM. Reason: Additional Parts Listing
    Tim Daleo
    Azusa, California
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/daleo1/albums

    Thunderbird Registry Entry
  • Joe Johnston
    Super-Experienced
    • Dec 23 2008
    • 720

    #2
    Keep up the good work. You have the beginnings of a good documentary that will help others later on.

    Comment

    • Wudro
      Experienced
      • Jan 25 2015
      • 231

      #3
      Season 2, Episode 1... Stoked!
      SquareBird in BirdCity

      Comment

      • Daleo56
        Experienced
        • Dec 27 2014
        • 315

        #4
        Step Four:
        I had to get 2" 3/8-24 bolts for the rear mount. The front was fine.


        Step Five
        I purchased new outer, inner bearings and seals and packed them all.


        Step Six
        The calipers were Left and Right and mounted up nice.


        Step 6.1 (14" rims only)
        My 14" rims from Summit barely rubbed so I ground off a little less than 1/8" from the caliper and now they clear. I was not fond of this solution however it was the thickest part of the caliper. It had enough contact to remove paint but not enough to gouge the rim. I will try my stock rims when everything is back together just to confirm they would not have fit.


        Step Seven
        Everything fit however I had to find longer brake hoses. I do not have a part number because I pulled them from one of my 56's. The S10 ones I bought were way too short. Banjo on one side and hex mount 3/16" on the other.


        Step Eight
        To remove the old master cylinder I spent 15 minutes trying to get the pedal bolt out. #$%^&*!!! It was actually worse than the window rollers!


        AND

        Steps Nine, Ten and Eleven
        I spent an HOUR putting the pedal bolt back in. WhoTH designed this? The only way I could get it done was to remove the rod from the MC and then reinstall it after. I hate this pedal design. You only have access from one side.

        The castle nuts and bolts from the original MC firewall worked fine however I added a washer to each one.


        Step Twelve
        Go and buy a bunch more little parts. I need to get an adapter for the larger rear brake threads on the master cylinder. I also need to get a coupler and some other miscellaneous parts to complete the job. Oh and I need a T for the brake light switch. Ugh.

        I finally just got mad and left it at the shop! I will try again tomorrow night...
        Tim Daleo
        Azusa, California
        https://www.flickr.com/photos/daleo1/albums

        Thunderbird Registry Entry

        Comment

        • toddgilroy
          Experienced
          • Aug 30 2014
          • 411

          #5
          Did you use the ABS combo part #9787? Did it bolt right on without any mods?

          Thanks!
          Last edited by toddgilroy; June 21, 2015, 09:36 PM. Reason: Typo
          Todd Gilroy
          1960 Tbird Convertible
          Thunderbird Registry #54651

          Comment

          • Daleo56
            Experienced
            • Dec 27 2014
            • 315

            #6
            Originally posted by toddgilroy
            Did you use the ABS combo part #9787? Did it bolt right on without any mods?

            Thanks!
            Yes, it bolted right in.
            Tim Daleo
            Azusa, California
            https://www.flickr.com/photos/daleo1/albums

            Thunderbird Registry Entry

            Comment

            • Tbird1044
              Super-Experienced
              • Jul 31 2012
              • 1346

              #7
              Sounds to me like you need a beer, or 2 or 6. LOL Looks like you made some good progress. I've shook my head more than once asking myself "What were they thinking?"

              Nyles

              Comment

              • DKheld
                Super-Experienced
                • Aug 27 2008
                • 1583

                #8
                The problem with the Granada rotors was that the center hole of the original wheel was too small to fit over the snout of the rotor. Be interested to see if they will fit over the Mustang rotor. I think the original wheels would have cleared the Granada calipers.

                I had the same trouble with the Granada hoses - way too short and had to find some longer ones.
                I used Master Power Brakes part number - HS88520K hose kit '16 inch for GM 69-77 single piston caliper

                Don't forget you will need a "T" of some sort for the power brake booster vacuum line. It is built in on the old booster and can't be moved.

                What? You don't like working upside down and backwards with only room enough for one hand while needing at least 3? Oh yeah - that pedal bolt is loads of fun.

                Just curious - was the bolt you bought not included or was the one supplied too short?

                NICE shop......

                Thanks for the pics and documentation process.

                Eric

                (ps - getting ready to start work on a '69 Blazer - what year is yours?)
                Last edited by DKheld; June 22, 2015, 09:59 AM.

                Comment

                • Daleo56
                  Experienced
                  • Dec 27 2014
                  • 315

                  #9
                  Originally posted by DKheld
                  The problem with the Granada rotors was that the center hole of the original wheel was too small to fit over the snout of the rotor. Be interested to see if they will fit over the Mustang rotor. I think the original wheels would have cleared the Granada calipers.

                  I had the same trouble with the Granada hoses - way too short and had to find some longer ones.
                  I used Master Power Brakes part number - HS88520K hose kit '16 inch for GM 69-77 single piston caliper

                  Don't forget you will need a "T" of some sort for the power brake booster vacuum line. It is built in on the old booster and can't be moved.

                  What? You don't like working upside down and backwards with only room enough for one hand while needing at least 3? Oh yeah - that pedal bolt is loads of fun.

                  Just curious - was the bolt you bought not included or was the one supplied too short?

                  NICE shop......

                  Thanks for the pics and documentation process.

                  Eric

                  (ps - getting ready to start work on a '69 Blazer - what year is yours?)
                  Those hoses you mention are for a 69-71 Camaro so that explains why the ones I pulled of my 56 dropped spindles fit so well!

                  The Scarebird kit does not include those new bolts. The two longer spindle bolts I pulled out did not have stock head markings so I believe they were not original. I bought two 3/8-24 bolts at Lowes that were 2" long and that fixed it.

                  I still need to buy:
                  • T vac line
                  • 3/16" brake line adapter (rear MC port)
                  • 3/16" plug (seal original junction block)
                  • 3/16" T for sender (MC to rear with sender on top)


                  The wheels fit great except for that slight rub I fixed. I kept the original tires and rims so once I get this all done I will try them. I did not get the rotors and calipers from ABS so I am on my own on that part.

                  My shop mate has the 71' Blazer and a couple Camaros. The 39' is his brothers and all of the 56's are mine. We split the shop down the middle except my wagon is on his side temporarily. There is a 56' 3600 hidden in the far back too I hope to finish someday. I also have two other 56' stored at my house. Most of the cars are just fun drivers and only a couple are nice enough to sit on the grass

                  The shop changes with my mood. Earlier in the year is was almost a full Ford shop. My shop mates hates it!

                  Tim Daleo
                  Azusa, California
                  https://www.flickr.com/photos/daleo1/albums

                  Thunderbird Registry Entry

                  Comment

                  • Daleo56
                    Experienced
                    • Dec 27 2014
                    • 315

                    #10
                    I dropped off the old stock wheels at shop today. Other than the FoMoCo logo is there any other marking to confirm they are 1960 original? I am going to try them on the car tonight to see how they rub.



                    Tim Daleo
                    Azusa, California
                    https://www.flickr.com/photos/daleo1/albums

                    Thunderbird Registry Entry

                    Comment

                    • simplyconnected
                      Administrator
                      • May 26 2009
                      • 8779

                      #11
                      Ford steel wheels were made in Ford's Monroe plant. The center part, we call the 'spider' is stamped. The outer part or 'rim' is roll-formed, then both pieces are spot welded in a fixture. If there is a 'Ford oval', it should be stamped into the spider.

                      Original 14" wheels were designed to fit around a drum. Since calipers were not invented yet, there is no relief in the rim's contour for a caliper to fit, even if you tried to space it out. The wheel centers will fit over a Mustang rotor snout but not a Granada snout.

                      Granada and Mustang rotors are 11" but that is about all they have in common. Mustang rotors have the same snout, seals and bearings as your Squarebird drum hubs so they bolt on without any machining or modifications. - Dave
                      Member, Sons of the American Revolution

                      CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                      "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                      --Lee Iacocca

                      From: Royal Oak, Michigan

                      Comment

                      • Daleo56
                        Experienced
                        • Dec 27 2014
                        • 315

                        #12
                        Originally posted by simplyconnected
                        Ford steel wheels were made in Ford's Monroe plant. The center part, we call the 'spider' is stamped. The outer part or 'rim' is roll-formed, then both pieces are spot welded in a fixture. If there is a 'Ford oval', it should be stamped into the spider.

                        Original 14" wheels were designed to fit around a drum. Since calipers were not invented yet, there is no relief in the rim's contour for a caliper to fit, even if you tried to space it out. The wheel centers will fit over a Mustang rotor snout but not a Granada snout.

                        Granada and Mustang rotors are 11" but that is about all they have in common. Mustang rotors have the same snout, seals and bearings as your Squarebird drum hubs so they bolt on without any machining or modifications. - Dave
                        I put the original wheels on today. The stock rims barely rubbed as you can see on the picture below. It was not enough to gouge the metal but enough to make noise. I bet there is a caliper out there that would work. I may ask Lucio next time I see him if there is a chance in heck something else would work...

                        Tim Daleo
                        Azusa, California
                        https://www.flickr.com/photos/daleo1/albums

                        Thunderbird Registry Entry

                        Comment

                        • Daleo56
                          Experienced
                          • Dec 27 2014
                          • 315

                          #13
                          Step Thirteen

                          I purchased a 5/16" to 3/16" adapter for the rear master cylinder port, a plug for the front block, a 3/16" to 3/16" to 1/8 pipe "T" for the rear brake line and a 1/8 pipe union for the switch. It was $12 at a local hose shop. I used a 20" 3/16" brake line with a couple bends and it fit perfectly to the rear T.

                          It is hard to see the lines down there but they are clean and no changes to the front pipes were made. The wires for the brake switch are also stock length and did not need to be changed. Very cool!





                          Step Fourteen to Seventeen

                          I bled all four corners by myself with a vac pump however I really need to have the wife pump the pedal the old way. I never get the pumps to work right...

                          I may paint the top of the MC but otherwise the brakes are DONE.



                          Step Eighteen

                          Brought the Snowbird home, parked it next to the wife's 56' and opened a cold beer. Except for the pedal bolt ..!.. this whole experience was very cool! Thank you all for the positive feedback and I am willing to help anyone out who lives near me. I will even do most of the work, except for that stoopid bolt...

                          Tim Daleo
                          Azusa, California
                          https://www.flickr.com/photos/daleo1/albums

                          Thunderbird Registry Entry

                          Comment

                          • Tbird1044
                            Super-Experienced
                            • Jul 31 2012
                            • 1346

                            #14
                            Looks really nice. I might take you up on the experienced labor, if and when I decide to go disc. I'd love to drive the Bird and see how the brakes feels. Did you try and stick the stock rims on after the conversion? Nice to know you found the tee at hose man. I couldn't find one down here, so I ordered it on Ebay.
                            Nyles

                            Comment

                            • Yellowbird
                              Experienced

                              • Jun 18 2009
                              • 259

                              #15
                              I'm getting ready to do the brakes on my '58.

                              I noticed you painted the Scarebird brackets. What did you do to be able to coat the zinc coated brackets?

                              I also spoke with Ed at ABS brakes today concerning the bracket, booster and m/c. They will not sell the bracket by itself. It would appear that everything mounted up well except for the one "stoopid" bolt.
                              Whose combination/proportion valve did you use?

                              Thanks.
                              sigpic

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