1960 Tbird hardtop Brake light issues

[skybluethunderbird1960]

Ever since I've owned my 1960 Tbird Hardtop whenever I hit the brakes it always has three brake lights come on. The two red lights on the right side and the middle light on the left side. I can't seem to find on the internet how many brake lights should be coming on when I hit the brake pedal. I've tried to install a new body harness which didn't even have the brake light wire so I had to reuse the old green wire from my body harness to get the three brake lights working again. Is there suppose to be four brake lights? Or do I need to have all six lights (including the lights with the white covers) come on when I brake? Also strangely my turn signals on my dashboard and my left parking light in the front of the car also come on when I hit the brake pedal. Can anybody help clear up this mess? Lol

[jopizz]

You should have four lights come on when you hit the brakes. Your red/white lens (backup light) should not come on. My first suggestion is to check the front parking lights and sockets. Corrosion in those sockets often causes problems with the rear lights and turn signals. Poor grounds can also cause these type of problems. I would also check the turn signal wires coming out of the steering column to verify they are connected to the correct color wires in the harness. Here's the link to the wiring diagram.

http://www.squarebirds.org/Diagrams-Schematics/1958-1968_Wiring_Diagrams/60TbirdWiringDiagram.jpg

John

[Tbird1044]

John pointed out several good things to check. I would strongly agree that it sounds like a ground problem on the tail light assy. A quick easy way to check is connect a jumper cable to the studs that hold in the tail light assy, to a good body ground and see what happens. If the assy is not grounded, the ground can feed back through other systems causing the bulbs to light.
Nyles

[simplyconnected]

I want to give a little theory of operation:

Turn signal flasher units come in two main flavors depending on how many lights are in your system. Historically, cars had one bulb in front, another in the rear and the dash light. This two-bulb flasher unit is the most common.

When Ford added two additional rear lights, only the outer bulbs flashed, keeping the new system the same. The additional stop lights were fed with the same green wire because they don't flash.

Your turn signal switch must interrupt the brake light for the side that is flashing and leave the other side alone. We run into problems with the turn signal switch in the steering column when trailer lights are added improperly. Too much current will burn the switch.

Ford saved a ton of money by using the chassis for the return-to-neg wire. Now, most lamp housings are plastic so the ground wire MUST be in the socket. Since 1157 bulbs use a common ground, IF a socket lost its ground, brake light current will feed back through the common tail light filament to the closest bulb with a good ground. That's why on old cars, you see the rear lights 'dance' back and forth at a stop light.

[Deanj]

Great advice, and oh by the way your back-up lights were optional. Having the white lens doesn't always mean your car had that option. Your back-up lights only work when the parking lights or headlamps are on. Ford was saving a couple amps back then.

[Joe Johnston]

back-up lights only work when the parking lights or headlamps are on.

Same as Little Birds. Any one know when this changed??? Common for Little Bird owners to swap the power feed wire from the light switch to the ACC terminal of the Ignition switch and have back up lights whenever shifted into reverse.

[JohnG]

It sounds like you have problems in the turn signal mechanism in the steering column.

If you continue to go in that direction, you have choices:

* get into the unit. It is a somewhat delicate assembly with small copper contacts and springs. Put an old white sheet on the floor under the steering area to make finding things easier. With a little caution you can simulate the operation and see if you can get the lights to work correctly. One corroded contact can be sufficient to wreack havoc

* replace the unit. Originals are available. Downside is that you have to get further into the steering column to get at the connections. This spurred me on to get the original unit back into functional shape..

Just remember what Dave said: the turn signalling capability and the brake lighting capability are mixed together.

Either way, you need a steering wheel puller (very cheap).

John

[Deanj]

The turn signal switch is a delicate device with tiny springs. I needed one and tried taking it apart unsuccessfully. I bought a new unit and threaded the 5 wires down the column to the connections under the dash. It is not easy and you might want to splice it in.

[simplyconnected]

Nooooooooooo, don't splice those wires! Tie a cord to the old harness as you pull it out. Then use the cord to pull the new harness in.

At the factory, they used a long stiff wire to get the job done fast. Since the original harness is there, use it.

Here is the switch and wire harness from Larry's:



B8SZ 13341-A sells for a hundred bucks and I cannot see cutting any of the wires on such a specialty harness when it's not necessary. - Dave

[Deanj]

You're right, I used a speedometer cable to get the wires through. Tell me why we're concerned with the integrity of those wires? If I could have used connectors, I wouldn't have taken the switch apart (as someone suggested) in the first place. It has to come out if you're replacing the shifter bowl.

[simplyconnected]

...Tell me why we're concerned with the integrity of those wires? If I could have used connectors, I wouldn't have taken the switch apart (as someone suggested) in the first place...

Seriously? The wires are set up to plug in using the provided bullet connectors so you DON'T need to splice. This must be a quick, positive thing for the guy on the assembly line.

Why didn't you use them?

[Deanj]

I just said I did use the connectors under the dash.

It would have saved me buying a turn signal switch if I could have removed the switch easily when I rebuilt the shifter column. Instead, someone on this forum suggested I disassemble the turn signal switch so that the shifter bowl could be removed. Eventually all the tiny springs were lost, and I pulled the switch out anyway replacing one wire at a time as I pulled the old wires out.

I do not recommend the turn signal switch disassembly because the tiny springs inside are nearly impossible to put back in place.

Too bad the switch didn't have its connectors near the shift bowl where all this extra work wouldn't have been necessary.

[simplyconnected]

It sounds like you have problems in the turn signal mechanism in the steering column.

If you continue to go in that direction, you have choices:

* get into the unit. It is a somewhat delicate assembly with small copper contacts and springs. Put an old white sheet on the floor under the steering area to make finding things easier. With a little caution you can simulate the operation and see if you can get the lights to work correctly. One corroded contact can be sufficient to wreack havoc

* replace the unit...

...It would have saved me buying a turn signal switch if I could have removed the switch easily when I rebuilt the shifter column. Instead, someone on this forum suggested I disassemble the turn signal switch so that the shifter bowl could be removed. Eventually all the tiny springs were lost, and I pulled the switch out anyway replacing one wire at a time as I pulled the old wires out...

Dean, it looks like you followed John's suggestion in the order he listed. Hey, I'm sorry your repair was a disaster but in fairness, John cautioned about this assembly being delicate with small springs, etc. I would only attempt this job on my electrical bench, not in the steering column.

I regard the old signal switch this way... If it's already broken, this job can only go in one direction. If by some miracle you get it fixed, now you have a good spare. So far, the only signal switch failure I have seen was due to an overcurrent condition, usually because lights were added.
Ultimately, you bought a new harness that works well and for that I am glad you're back in business. I often caution our members that adding extra lights to the turn signal system exceeds the current limitations of the switch and should only be done using three separate relays and a separate power wire, fused at the battery. Relays are cheap and they can safely add up to an extra 30-amps to your trailer circuit. Meaning, none of that extra current goes through your steering column, brake switch or headlight switch. The power it takes to energize a relay coil is LESS than a #57 dash light bulb. If anyone needs an electrical diagram, let me know.

Adding LEDs is the exception because they require very little power to run so they do not need relays. - Dave

[sidewalkman]

Same as Little Birds. Any one know when this changed??? Common for Little Bird owners to swap the power feed wire from the light switch to the ACC terminal of the Ignition switch and have back up lights whenever shifted into reverse.

Anyone know the wiring to do this, I always thought it odd to not have reverse lights during the day. I see on the wiring switch diagram the shared wire to the neutral switch is with the glovebox light and clock, so I'm assuming the BU lights are someplace else?

[jopizz]

The backup light is a black/red wire. It goes to the A terminal of the headlight switch. To do it correctly remove that wire from the headlight switch and run it to the ACC terminal of the ignition switch. You can also remove that wire from the neutral switch and run a wire from the neutral switch to the ignition switch. The wire you remove will be hot with the lights on so you will have to cap it off.

John