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  • JohnG
    John
    • Jul 28 2003
    • 2341

    Wiper motor vaccum tank?

    hi everyone,

    This is about improving the wiper motor performance without converting to electrical.

    My wiper motor has been rebuilt professionally. Works great when it has enough vacuum. My fuel pump develops about 10 inches of vacuum which results in marginal performance. I could replace the pump but no guarantees another would be better or that it would stay that way (don't use the wipers all that often). I did have a pump which developed near 20 inches for awhile and the wipers worked awesome but the pump died on the gasoline side of things.

    So...following the power assisted brake guys, the idea came up to have a tank in between the pump and the wiper motor. The tank would have two check valves in it so as to retain a pressure differential (vacuum) which would result in smoother and better wiper action.

    Sounds ok on paper. Has anyone done or seen such a set up? Questions would be a) what did they use for check valves? b) how big a tank? c) how much better did it work?

    thanks!

    John

    ps I have to admit to being partially motivated by the fact it has rained more than 50% of the summer in the Northeast US...
    1958 Hardtop
    #8452 TBird Registry
    http://tbird.info/registry/DataSheet...r~equals~8452)

    photo: http://www.squarebirds.org/users/joh...d_June2009.jpg
    history:
    http://www.squarebirds.org/users/johng/OCC.htm
  • ncbird
    Experienced
    • Jan 5 2008
    • 390

    #2
    electric vacuum pump

    John before I decided to go electric I looked at using an electric vacuum pump like is on my pickup. A diesel does not have vacuum so a pump has to be used and Ford went to an electric around 99. It pumps to 17 lbs and shuts off and comes back on at 13. Here is a link to one currently on ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/Powerstroke-Dies...QQcmdZViewItem
    Grant
    NCbird on the Coast of NC
    "Dads Bird" for my father

    Comment

    • JohnG
      John
      • Jul 28 2003
      • 2341

      #3
      hi Grant
      thanks! That sounds like a very good option. I had thought of that but had no idea what specific item might get the job done.

      I would assume there is just a line in, a line out, and a switched 12 V source...

      john
      1958 Hardtop
      #8452 TBird Registry
      http://tbird.info/registry/DataSheet...r~equals~8452)

      photo: http://www.squarebirds.org/users/joh...d_June2009.jpg
      history:
      http://www.squarebirds.org/users/johng/OCC.htm

      Comment

      • tarps3
        Super-Experienced
        • Jul 21 2003
        • 837

        #4
        Hey John,
        I tried a vacuum pump from a Volvo cruise control module on my Olds and I think it must have been defective because it never did much for me.
        I ended up buying one that was made for "race" cars with an extreme cam (i.e. no vacuum).
        It looks very cool (polished aluminum), about the size of an orange, and all it powers is the wipers and washer. It is an electric pump and I have a toggle switch under the dash to turn it on when I need it.
        Works absolutely great!

        I thin I may have gotten it from Jegs or Summit - I can't remember
        Casey

        Comment

        • tarps3
          Super-Experienced
          • Jul 21 2003
          • 837

          #5
          Here is what my vacuum pump looks like except mine doesn't have the wiring connector...it just had a positive and ground wire.
          Attached Files
          Casey

          Comment

          • JohnG
            John
            • Jul 28 2003
            • 2341

            #6
            hey Casey, thanks!! I have a Summit catalogue so I will check it out.

            If you think about it, most old cars up to the 50s were universally equipped with Trico vacuum washer motors as are the TBirds, so there must be all kinds of guys out there who got tired of wimpy performance yet did not want to
            covert to electric...

            john
            1958 Hardtop
            #8452 TBird Registry
            http://tbird.info/registry/DataSheet...r~equals~8452)

            photo: http://www.squarebirds.org/users/joh...d_June2009.jpg
            history:
            http://www.squarebirds.org/users/johng/OCC.htm

            Comment

            • fomoco59
              Super-Experienced
              • Jun 10 2005
              • 729

              #7
              I never could understand why the top of the line TBirds had vacuum, while my old '59 Ford wagon had factory electric wipers.
              sigpic
              Mike Lemmon
              '59 Raven Black Hardtop

              http://www.tbirdregistry.com/viewdat...tryNumber=2461

              Comment

              • tarps3
                Super-Experienced
                • Jul 21 2003
                • 837

                #8
                ok.
                Looked up in my records and found where I bought my vacuum pump.
                I bought it on Ebay from a seller by the name of:
                riverascrib

                Go to ebay and send him a message to see if he has any others coming up for sale.

                He recently sold the one pictured here.
                The things work GREAT!

                Here was the description for the pump:

                12V VAC. BRAKE BOOSTER PUMP

                RATED AT 27 INCHES HG VAC.

                ( GREAT CONDITION )

                THIS IS THE PREFECT PUMP, SMALL COMPACT AND PLENTY OF VACUUM.

                BIG THINGS DO COME IN SMALL PACKAGES - THIS VACUUM PUMP IS RATED AT 27 Inch Hg Vac -

                NOT LIKE THOSE BIG AND BULKY PUMP THAT ARE RATED ONLY 16 INCH HG VAC AND HARD TO FIND AN AREA TO MOUNT.


                When using a supercharger or a big cam or installing your master cylinder and brake booster underneath the vehicle, chances are there's not enough vacuum being generated to operate power brakes.

                An electric vacuum pump will provide the proper amount of vacuum to the booster so it can operate correctly.

                Great for 1955 to 1966 Thunderbirds, Super Charger Blower, Hotrods, Streetrods, Ratrods, Trucks, Electric Vehicles and any other kind of project were you will need plenty of vacuum.
                Attached Files
                Casey

                Comment

                • ncbird
                  Experienced
                  • Jan 5 2008
                  • 390

                  #9
                  pump

                  I guess my take was that the diesel vacuum pump was designed for small actuaters and had a pressure regulator so it could be wired to come on with the ignition. My question would be with a pump that is meant for power brakes that it might be "to much". I know the vacuum motor on my 35 ford coupe actually had an adj pot so you could control the speed of the wipers. With the big pump do the wipers sound like they are "banging" at the stops? Yes I think the diesel pump is a single in and single out with pwr and grd. As for the electric vs vacuum on the 60 Fords I think it came down to mounting. I looked at adapting "big car" electic wipers and they all mount like the trico vacuum wipers with a shoe. This makes a simple swap on something like a 57 Ranchero where the motor is mounted on the firewall.
                  I went with the electric aftermarket to get variable wipers but would have done a vacuum pump if staying with the vacuum wipers.
                  Last edited by ncbird; August 19, 2008, 10:44 AM. Reason: added info
                  Grant
                  NCbird on the Coast of NC
                  "Dads Bird" for my father

                  Comment

                  • tarps3
                    Super-Experienced
                    • Jul 21 2003
                    • 837

                    #10
                    Good points Grant.

                    On my Olds, the wiper knob regulates how much vacuum is "released" to the wiper motor so it is infinitely variable.

                    I have the pump wired up with a toggle and I only turn it on when I need to run the wipers. It has no regulator.
                    Even "full on" it doesn't bang the wipers so that's good.

                    That electric conversion is the way to go but I couldn't find one for the Olds.
                    Plus I think the vacuum pump was only about $80 compared to the $180+ electric conversion...and I'm cheap - ha!
                    Casey

                    Comment

                    • KULTULZ

                      #11
                      Originally posted by fomoco59

                      I never could understand why the top of the line TBirds had vacuum, while my old '59 Ford wagon had factory electric wipers.
                      FOMOCO at that time was sourcing electric motors from TRICO and GM. The electrics were an option. GM could not supply both their lines and FORD during that period and that is why FORD stayed with vacuum.

                      Comment

                      • drclarkra
                        Apprentice
                        • Aug 4 2006
                        • 86

                        #12
                        Great information/vaccuum

                        I like your idea on the tank idea John I think if no one has tried it, I will. Also on my brakes wich totally suck (or the vaccuum doesn't suck),I need to check my tank and how it is hooked up. There is only one line going to it , so I don't see how it would work at all. someone just tee'd the line. You take the tank out through the fender well don't you?
                        Birdman

                        Comment

                        • JohnG
                          John
                          • Jul 28 2003
                          • 2341

                          #13
                          let's see if we can think this through:

                          a) The tank has a line to the engine or fuel pump. Air can only go out through that fitting, not in (thus creating vacuum)

                          b) There is also a line from the tank to the wiper motor. Air can only come into the tank through that line, not out. So we only have fittings (valves) that increase the vacuum to the motor, not decrease.

                          Does that make sense???
                          Last edited by JohnG; August 19, 2008, 01:57 PM.
                          1958 Hardtop
                          #8452 TBird Registry
                          http://tbird.info/registry/DataSheet...r~equals~8452)

                          photo: http://www.squarebirds.org/users/joh...d_June2009.jpg
                          history:
                          http://www.squarebirds.org/users/johng/OCC.htm

                          Comment

                          • Petrolhead
                            Experienced
                            • Jul 2 2007
                            • 403

                            #14
                            Yep, makes sense, kind of, I think... Think of the tank as a 'vacuum storage', I know that sounds mental because vacuum is in effect a lack of air, and it doesn't seem logical to store something you don't have, but that's the way it works. Vacuum storage tanks are also used to give vacuum assisted power brakes extra vacuum in reserve.

                            I think the single line with a T might work, maybe. The engine creates vacuum, in effect sucking the air away. The tank has vacuum, also in effect trying to suck air in. The wiper motor runs off vacuum, so with a T in the single line the wiper motor is being run by the vacuum provided by both the tank and the engine.
                            Imagine two household vaccum cleaners connected to a single line, one is the 'engine' the other is the 'vacuum tank'. Put one T in the line with a hose off that and you'd have a more powerful vacuum cleaner. Does this make any sense????

                            Comment

                            • YellowRose
                              Super-Experienced


                              • Jan 21 2008
                              • 17188

                              #15
                              Wiper motor vaccum tank?

                              Petrolhead! You just made me rich! I am gonna invent the best vacuum cleaner in the world using the technique you just described! Only I will combine the two sections into one. Vacuum cleaner with a built in "vacuum tank"! I am gonna beat up on the vacuum cleaner manufacturers of the world with that idea! lmbo.. Not!!

                              Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
                              The Terminator..... VTCI #11178 ITC #6000 Yellow Mustang Registry (YMR) #12188
                              Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or Call (Cell) 210-875-1411

                              https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm
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