60 conv. power relays question

[kuusamon]

Hello,
I got the main pump motor working and the deck cylinders do their job, however only in the deck closing cycle the motor turns on. The top opening cycle nothing comes except the deck lock/unlock motor.
Some troubles with the relays.
I know my electrics fairly well and have the electrical diagram as well. However the previous owner has been messing around with the relays and tried to make some shortcuts.

Can someone make a closeup picture of the relays from the top from the top of the relays with hopefully the wiring colors to be seen?
One of the relays has some contacts broken of, I can fix that. Even if a relay does not function at all it is possible to open up.
Just a pic from the top of the relay tray so I can restore it to original wiring and relay location.

regards

[simplyconnected]

I don't have a real picture of a T-bird but I have a picture of the relay from Mac's:


1960-1963 Convertible 2 contact posts stamping #COSF-15672-D US$56.95


1960 Convertible Top Relay 3 contact posts right-hand, #COSF-15672-A US$59.95


1960 Convertible Top Relay 3 contact posts left-hand, #COSF-15672-C US$59.95

I can't tell which one you want, so I searched macsautoparts.com for these. - Dave

[byersmtrco]

Usually , they just need to be cleaned.
I have an original (& operating) syst.

I just got back into town. I can shoot you some pics later in the wk.

John

[kuusamon]

Thanks for the pic's and advice,

yes I found a better wiring diagram on the net, better than the one from the shop manual which is more a flow chart type.
I share both here the top pic is the better one, I can work with that one.
regards

[dgs]

I seem to remember that there were two versions of the system, one with 10 relays and one with 12. Is that right? I think mine has 12, but she's put to bed for the winter with no trunk access right now.

[kuusamon]

Yes I got it working, cleaning them up and tracing back the wires and with the help of a flux multimeter does wonders.
thanks and regards

[kuusamon]

No I did not get them to work correctly yet.....
I did not look to good at the schematics.
Indeed what DGS says, there is a 10 and 12 relay system and I have the 12 relay system and all the diagrams I have show the 10 relay system.

What is in my tray is 10x cosf-15672-D and 1x 15672-A and 1x 15672-C
Seems the previous owner did some changes I think.
I am confused when I check the catalogues from larry's or tbirdparts or macs. They only claim that there are 8x 15672-D, 2x 15672-A B9SF, 1x 15672-A and 1x 15672-C

anybody with the same configuration? or a diagram for the 12 relay situation?

[YellowRose]

60 conv. power relays question

Check with Don at the Bird Nest. He might have a copy of the 12 relay schematic that he can email you. Or post here on the Forum for you. He does monitor this Forum at times. Here is his email address. don@tbirdparts.com Or he might be able to put you in touch with someone who does have it.

[simplyconnected]

Ron, I have not heard about what isn't working. 10-relay, 12-relay,... ok, but your problem may be covered in the schematics you already have.

This is a 12-volt d-c system. The best way to keep relays and limit switches working is by running them often. Relays and limit switches need their contacts cleaned by cycling them under power. The least bit of dirt can stop a limit contact from passing power. Work them vigorously. The reason ignition points work so well is because they cycle millions of times per day.

A Fluke meter is a wonderful thing, but it can only tell you where power stops. That can be intermittant, and the problem might change from cycle to cycle. I always troubleshoot using a jumper, test light (a load), and a cheap continuity light.

I am guessing your wires are connected properly, unless they have been detached and left hanging. The relays may look different, but they are all single-pole, normally open relays, just like today's single-pole relays they all work the same way.

You can identify relay function by the wire colors. Label the relays with a marker. Usually a relay won't energize because a limit switch contact (or two in series) may be dirty. Number your limit switches and label your schematics.

You may need two people, but when your cycle stops, start tapping limit switches, THEN troubleshoot it. Tapping with a screwdriver handle will vibrate the contacts, and it will show if the switch is loose. Use your senses; listen for relays, solenoids, and motors. If you hear a relay click, but nothing happens, tap on it, then check for power going out.

If you need help with relay logic, I can walk you through it. In my day, all automation was run by relays. Now, Electrical Engineers at Ford attend special courses to learn relay logic because universities haven't taught it for decades. - Dave

[kuusamon]

Thanks Dave,

yes I removed the relay tray, took it home, cleaned them, powered them up with a spare battery and checked the working with a Fluke. The all seem to be in working order. But one of the relays has a contact pin broken of and was a wire soldered on were the contact pin was supposed to be. So I will order a new relay just to be sure and have it in original working order.
However then checked on the websites of the several shops, they all show a different setup advice for the 12 relay system.
Looking at my tray it shows 10+1+1 the 1+1 are the similar relays for the solenoids and the other 10 are all the same.

If I look at the ordering pages of the parts dealers they show about how many relays are required for a certain set are 8+2+1+1, so 8 of the same ones and 2 different ones and the 2 for the solenoids.
Just want to be sure that the previous owner did not substitute any, lloks like they were trying different things and could not get the top working.
I can not test it fully yet because I need my new hose set first before I am able to fully test the setup.
But all parts removed, the relays and limit switches are working when I put the power (individual)to them and check them with a fluke.

regards
ron
(I just send an email of to Don from Tbird parts, lets hope he has some info on their information on their catalog)

[simplyconnected]

Ron, did you take any pictures before you disconnected?

[kuusamon]

no I didn't but I marked all the connections, actually the were marked/taped already by the previous owner, that is also why I think they have been messing around with it and changed things not correctly.
But the wires are all color coded, still the original wires, so with the correct diagram I can reconnect them and check.
Actually when I do get the hose set, fill the system up again and with the help of the fluke, I can probably figure it out how the working is supposed to be, but it would be so much faster and because I am ordering parts now, that I know if something is missing or incorrectly changed, so that I can all order it at the same time.

I must go back to the car and look at the connectors again and see if any connection has been overlooked.
regards

[kuusamon]

here some pics of my relay tray.

[Guest]

Hey Ronald,
Check out the convertible top wiring below, let me know if that helps!
Richard D. Hord

[kuusamon]

Thanks Richard,
its the same one I have, 10 relays total on the image, 2 relays missing to make it the 12 relay system.

regards
ron