Engine swap question

[Hockeycoach]

Cracked block on '59 my son(20 yr old) and I are starting to restore. Bought a 390 that came out of a '65. Two questions - Are the motor mounts the same? Are the trans lines the same?
Thanks in advanceand my apologies - kind of a tech idiot and realize I may be overlooking these answers on here somewhere. Life put this off for a couple years but we are now able to get moving on it and are hoping to keep it simple in order to keep it on track so we can get it back on the road!

[jopizz]

The blocks are basically identical. The motor mounts are the same. I assume you are using the original cruise-o-matic transmission from the '59. Nothing changes as far as the trans lines go. Don't hesitate to ask as many questions as you like. Also don't forget to check out the Technical Resource Library. Many issues that crop up can be answered looking there.

John

[Tbird1044]

Do you have the starter that originally came with the 390? Somewhere back in the days, Ford changed the design of the starter which also means it takes a different flex plate. There are guys on the site that will have the answers if you plan to change or upgrade the starter. This may be a good time to upgrade to the later model starter and do the flex plate upgrade if you were planning on putting back the original starter.
Nyles

[Hockeycoach]

Thank you! Bought the engine/trans as a unit so trans came with the 390 and starter as well.

[simplyconnected]

...Bought a 390 that came out of a '65...

A '65 what? Mustang? Truck?

You were wise to get them as a unit. 390 mounts are backward compatible, even though Ford added an 'extra' hole in the block.

Your '65 390 may have a C4 transmission. If the bell housing is one piece with the transmission case, it's a C6. If this engine came from a truck, the intake valves may be small and the cam may be for a truck.

All the FE engines are basically the same. More options are available for the 390/427's, like Edelbrock aluminum heads. - Dave

[DKheld]

Replaced my OEM 352 with a '64 390 (engine only though).



Not sure how much external "stuff" you are transferring over to the new engine from the old......pretty sure you'll have to transfer everything to make all the pulleys line up (including the damper). Which means you will have to make a new timing mark on the 352 damper to use the 390 pointer.

Should have PCV on your '65 - Yay! - now you can eliminate the road draft tube.



Water pump shaft length may be different if from a truck and the fan will be too far away from the radiator but that's a non issue if you transfer the old one......

The 352 exhaust manifolds are specific to the Tbird. You'll either have to transfer them or rework the exhaust. The 352 has flat mating surfaces for the pipe connection and the 390 manifolds will have donut style. Also the 352 Tbird drivers side manifold has an indentation for extra clearance to the steering box. I've read that the 390 manifold will fit but very tight - no first hand experience on that though. If you do transfer your manifolds I'd suggest having them surfaced first and re-install with new studs, bolts and locks (AND NO GASKETS - as original). I finally had to pull my engine back out to take care of exhaust leaks so do it right the first time ( just sayin' )



I was able to transfer the accelerator pedal and transmission linkage to the new intake. Not sure if you will run into an issue there with the C6



I had to buy a couple of adapters to make all the intake accessories work - think the temp sending unit was smaller on the 352 - moved most of the vacuum stuff and had to add a vac port for the PCV? Just little stuff - nothing major there.

Won't be an oil breather tube at the front of the intake so no longer any place to add oil to the engine. Stick with the PCV system and get different style valve covers rather than the OEM style. I bought some cheap-o chrome valve covers off ebay ($30) and used a push in style breather cap (can't see it in this pic - other side) where I can add oil as well as adding the PCV valve. Added the old 312 Tbird stickers to the chrome valve covers because I like the style of the stickers. You may be able to use the 390 style valve covers (blue ones in the pic above) - don't remember if they interfered with the original style air cleaner or not - gave mine away.



From what I remember the C6 uses a different mount so I think you have to use the C6 rear mount and drill 2 new holes in the body to mount it (hopefully someone that has done this will let us know)

That's just the things I can remember right off -

Eric

[jopizz]

C6 transmissions did not become prevalent in Fords until 1966. However if it's a COM and you use it instead of the '59 COM you will have to run a vacuum line to it. It has a vacuum modulator which your '59 does not. If you're not concerned about originality you can drop the engine/trans in as a unit. As mentioned you will have to swap the exhaust manifolds and carb linkage. Also the '65 has an alternator. You can keep it and rewire it or put on the original generator. I would keep the alternator. There is lots of information in the TRL on how to do the conversion. If you want it to look like a stock '59 you can use just the block and heads and transfer everything else over.

John

[Hockeycoach]

Thanks guys! Got the 390 from a '65 tbird. The engine and trans were complete and came as a unit. Originality or appearance of such is not an issue.

Eric, that's great help - especially with pics.

I realize these questions I ask and will ask appear basic but it's been a fun father/son project to finally get started. My dad was the ultimate gearhead and car builder and was going to be ringleader of this but unfortunately he died a few years back rather unexpectedly so we're finally moving on without his experience & guidance. I guess, what I'm trying to say, is that I'm willing to ask what may appear to be simple and/or dumb questions to avoid problems that will sidetrack us.

A '65 what? Mustang? Truck?

You were wise to get them as a unit. 390 mounts are backward compatible, even though Ford added an 'extra' hole in the block.

Your '65 390 may have a C4 transmission. If the bell housing is one piece with the transmission case, it's a C6. If this engine came from a truck, the intake valves may be small and the cam may be for a truck.

All the FE engines are basically the same. More options are available for the 390/427's, like Edelbrock aluminum heads. - Dave

[Dan Leavens]

Jerry no worries on asking questions, as this is exactly what our knowledgeable birders are good at. Better ask the questions than proceed and get stuck. Using the TRL(Technical Resource Library) will prove invaluable as a reference guide as it had diagrams / complete step by step procedures and pictures to use.

The fact that you have taken over the restoration in your Dad's legacy is fantastic. Also Father / Son rebuilds are classic and take plenty of pictures along the way

[JohnG]

did the '65 motor come with an expansion tank?

If so, get it checked for leaks and consider using it instead of the original. It has ribs and reinforcement that the originals did not have and is less likely to leak. ( I say this with some bias as I had poor luck with '58 vintage tanks. Since the design changed it would seem Ford thought improvement was possible.) In any event, don't take the expansion tank for granted.

John

[Hockeycoach]

Roger that, John. I'm assuming a radiator shop can pressure test the overflow tank & check for leaks. Planning on taking radiator in anyway.

Do I understand correctly that the best, or only maybe, way to post pictures is to become a dues-paying member? I plan on it anyway just to support but wanted to check that. Not sure anyone wants to see random update pics but might assist in making sense of some of my questions if I include pictures.

I have a shop manual - is an illustrated parts catalog helpful for seeing how things go together? I'm already lost a bit as my dad took lead on the engine removal but then got ill so I've got a container of bolts and such and need to figure out where everything goes.

I'm a stone-age guy so type slowly with any computer or web hints

And Happy 4th to all!

[jopizz]

Just be aware that the later expansion tanks have a larger diameter outlet so the stock hose won't fit.

John

[JohnG]

John, now that you mention it, I recall making an adapter of sorts from a couple inches of original hose.

john

[Woobie]

Just be aware that the later expansion tanks have a larger diameter outlet so the stock hose won't fit.

John

We used the later style expansion tank on our '60 and the later style outlet was smaller. We made an adapter out of a section of hose and some glue and kept the 58-60 sized hoses while the early style tank was being repaired.

Happy Fourth !

[Woobie]

I'm a stone-age guy so type slowly with any computer or web hints

And Happy 4th to all!

There is, or used to be a time limit, on typing a post here.