1961 Bird Pulls to Right when Braking

[GeoffInCarlsbad]

Brake test

Jacked right wheel up.

Pressed brake all the way and released

Could barely move wheel.

Repeated on the left side.

Same result.

Hmmm.

Tried to loosen nuts on MC to booster. Frozen. Sprayed penetrant and will tackle later.

Back to work.

[jopizz]

How old is the master cylinder?

John

[GeoffInCarlsbad]

Probably as old as me!

That MC looks original and is probably original. At least it looks like it. I'll send along a pic.

[jopizz]

Well then there's your problem. Most likely the cylinder bore is corroded and the piston is hanging up and not releasing right away. When you said in a previous post that the master cylinder was good I assumed it was new. I guess I should never assume.

John

[GeoffInCarlsbad]

One of the problems....

Hi John:

Yep, well, the "experts" originally told me the MC was fine. Now I am having my doubts. I was able to finally loosen up the 2 nuts holding the MC on to the Booster, but I am running out of daylight, so I will put her to bed for the night.

But looks like I need to do an MC rebuild. That looks pretty straight forward. It's interesting the brakes look like they release when I have the drum off, as they seem to pull back quite readily But once I put the drum back on, there seems to be an issue with them releasing. I'll start a separate thread on that work if I cannot find one that already exists.

So, I need to do the suspension work and the brake work. I'm going to be busy for awhile!

[GeoffInCarlsbad]

Master Cylinder

Talked to 2 brake persons today. Since both front wheels get bound up (glad I did that experiment on both sides), the conclusion is that the MC is ancient and can be rebuilt or replaced. I can get a brand new one for $44 from carparts.com BUT, do I need a 1" bore or a 7/8" bore? Specs in the manual say MAXIMUM 1.003".

Also, I have read in Larry's that if the car was build after 6/9/61, then use the 7/8" Bore. My car was build 1/23, so I assume 1" Bore for POWER BRAKES.

Other than 1/8" is there any difficulty going either way?

[jopizz]

Go with the 1". That's what your car came with. You can get one from RockAuto.com for $32.00. We also get a 5% discount.

John

[YellowRose]

1961 Bird Pulls to Right when Braking

Geoff informed me tonight as to what the Brake shop found and action taken to fix the problem he was having with his Tbird pulling to the right when braking. Here is what he had to say.

"I will get the car back Friday. Here's a checklist of what work is being done:

1) New Brake Spring Kits all around. Just the springs, leaving the self-adjusters. Everything else: Wheel Cylinders, Shoes & Pad, Drums turned, brake hoses are all brand new.

2) Re-Greasing the back-plates on the front. Also repacking the wheel bearings.

3) Checked the hydraulics. The report today is that everything works just fine, including push rod length and the new master cylinder.

4) Adjusting the brakes appropriately. The front in particular were not properly adjusted and were way off.

5) Because of #4, it is suspected that all the braking was being done by Right Front, and the other 3 wheels provided little stopping. Indicator was there is very little brake dust on the other 3, while the Right Front was covered thick with brake dust.

6) replacing both front shocks.

7) I will be replacing the Left Side Lower Ball Joint and Lower Control Arm Bushing after I get the car back Friday morning. I am doing this work so that I can clean up and paint the lower control arm, so then everything on both sides of the suspension will match in new parts & bushing, etc.

So at the end of the day, all the brakes should be proper and the suspension proper.

I will gladly let you know the results shortly afterward.

As an additional fix-it note, my right front shock was leaking badly, hence I am replacing both front shocks. The outboard housing of the shock was pretty beat up, as I suspect it was hitting/rubbing up against the spring. I am unsure why that happened, as is the mechanic. I don't know if that is a cause or a sympton/casualty of what has yet to be identified as the root cause. I think I had asked a question about whether the spring could be a culprit in all this, as it is identified in the shop manual as a potential cause of the car pulling when braking.

Essentially I am trying everything, for education purposes and of course to right the ship.

This is probably more info than you were asking for, but these are steps I am taking to try to root out the cause, and solve the mystery."

The bold sections was done by me, to highlight a few things that Geoff reported on.

[GeoffInCarlsbad]

Results to Date

Folks interested in the results of taking car to Brake Specialist:

Per earlier note, springs replaced and adjustments made. This is the left wheel. Right looks same.



I also replaced the Left Lower Ball Joint and Left Lower Control Arm Bushing:



I also had two new front shocks put on.

Brakes are all working much better. Right Wheel still heats up more than the left, but not like it did earlier; but to caveat that, it was after a rather short 3 mile ride.

Before I report any further, I will await the front end alignment. Right now it's rather out of alignment with all the new bushings and ball joints replaced on both the Left & Right. Because of the holiday weekend, that won't happen until Tuesday.

Enjoy your July 4th weekend.

[Randy]

Thanks for the update Geoff
Things are looking up!

[GeoffInCarlsbad]

Wrong Strut Bushings?

Your suspension and your brakes are stock, just as described in the 1961 illustration but it's up to you to recognize old, shredded parts will probably not look the same as new ones.

I hope you get these problems resolved using correct parts for a '61 T-bird. BTW, those bushings are sold by many T-bird vendors including Larry's:

These are twenty bucks, not eighty. - Dave

I ordered these from Larry's and installed them about 2 weeks ago. Took the car to the alignment shop this morning, and the mechanic said these are incorrect and wouldn't perform the alignment. The Brake Shop mechanic said the same, and I assured him according to the drawings and catalog suppliers, these are correct.

These are the correct parts for '61/62, but perhaps without the Stabilizer Bar?

Per an earlier post, you will see how damaged those bushings were, and the second set I installed recently now look the same.

Per the Ford illustrations, those parts are 3A187, what I noticed was that '61 Drawing (my vehicle) shows those looking similar to what I posted, but the '63-66 drawing has a more barrel-looking drawing. I refer to this because the '61 drawing does not show the Stabilizer Bar in place where the '63-66 Drawing does. My '61 has the stabilizer bar, and it is shown in my shop manual. I have posted below. My config looks more like the 63/66 config. Should I have used the '63/66 style strut bushings? If so, does anyone know the complete OEM designation (i.e. C4DZ-3A187-AR for the '65-66 Mustang)?

Has anyone any experience with this?

[jopizz]

Rock Auto shows them in stock for $17.35. I guess you can order them and see if they fit any better.

John

[jopizz]

Ford part number is C2SZ-3A187-A. Fits Thunderbird 62-66 and Lincoln 61-69.

John

[GeoffInCarlsbad]

Okey dokey

It won't hurt to try. Thanks, John.

BTW, I took out a little bit of brake fluid from my M/C. I had tried to match it up with the fill on the old M/C. When I removed some fluid, it seems to be allowing a better release of the front brakes. When I ran it to the alignment shop this morning, about 5 mile trip, the wheels were quite warm, but not too hot to touch.

Per the manual, I also created a sheet metal guage of the correct Push Rod Mininum (0.962) and used it to reset the Push Rod, and that may have also contributed. Since that is the min spec, I will keep it there.

My Brake Fluid is filled to about 3/8" from the rim. I was thinking perhaps taking down to 1/2" may help.

I just have not had the opportunity to break the bleeder on the wheel cylinder yet. That's the last experiment recommended, but I just have not had the time to try it yet.

[jopizz]

It sounds like you are making progress with the brake problem. You don't need much fluid in the reservoir for the brakes to work. Better to under fill than overfill. If you shortened the push rod even a little that may have been enough to make a difference. As long as your wheels aren't getting hot to the point where you can't touch them and you can stop in a straight line under normal braking then it sounds like problem solved.

John