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  #111  
Old 08-14-2018, 12:50 AM
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Default Car Broke Down First Drive

Kirsten sent me a pic of her see thru fuel filter leading to the carb. Below is a pic of it. I can't see any gas in it, however the engine has not been on in the last 24 hours. It looks to me as though there are some small spots of gunk or rust in it, but not as much as I was expecting to see if that tank has a lot of rust in it. I think that I will ask her to take a picture of that filter the next time she has the car running, sitting in Park with the emergency brake on, and see what that filter shows with gas running through it to the carb...
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Last edited by YellowRose : 08-14-2018 at 01:05 AM.
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  #112  
Old 08-14-2018, 04:42 AM
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Ray, as we know, the fuel filter is the least expensive & easiest item to change on a car. I'm surprised that the Mechanic in question didn't. Unless he did, & the debris in the Filter is the accumulation from the past couple of weeks.

Chris......From OZ.
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  #113  
Old 08-14-2018, 04:56 AM
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The amount of dirt in that filter would never stop the engine. That filter looks great.

Ray, you may have a misconception about fuel starvation. There is a fine-mesh screen at the end of the pickup tube inside the fuel tank. Rust, inside the tank, has nowhere to go because the screen holds it back. Over the course of many decades, the amount of rust becomes huge. I pulled FIVE heaping handfuls of rust out of my '55's fuel tank.

As the fuel pump continues to draw fuel, the screen becomes loaded more and more until it clogs and the engine quits. Rust does not float. As the car drives, fuel moves around causing the rust to 'even itself out' along the bottom of the tank. So, 'new' random pieces constantly present themselves under the pickup screen. As the area under the pickup 'lifts' the pieces, gas in motion brings more rust to fill that void, like waves replace and even out sand on the beach.

These pieces of rust are not large enough to get to the filter. If the pickup screen ever ruptured, the fuel pump would deal with rust solids and that little filter would constantly load up. Like I said, FIVE heaping handfuls were in my tank.

BTW, an unvented gas cap will also stop fuel delivery. If the car stops and she removes the cap, this condition would create a suction noise as the cap is taken off. Then, the engine would start immediately. Both of our classics are full-size Fords and they both have vented gas tanks (so I don't worry about it).

I still suggest a new tank be installed with a new vented cap. - Dave
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  #114  
Old 08-14-2018, 05:49 AM
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Default Car Broke Down First Drive

Thanks for the comments. As regarding rust build up at the screen, I know what that screen is meant to do and that is pretty much what I have told her, as you stated it. Regarding the gas cap, since she could not tell if it was a vented cap or not, she replaced it and has a new vented cap on the tank now. Since then, she has driven the car around her area for some short distance, and so far, so good. Regarding the see thru fuel filter, I do not know if that is the same one that was on the car when she got it or that mechanic replaced it when he was trying to find the problem she was encountering. She should be able to tell us if she knows whether or not he has replaced it, and if that is a new one we are looking at or the one that came with the car. She is probably going to take her out again this weekend to go to a car show about 15 minutes from her home, just to see how she does, and to enjoy her first car show to see.
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  #115  
Old 08-14-2018, 11:08 AM
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Appreciate all the comments.

Mechanic didn't change the fuel filter far as I know. He changed the starter solenoid, ignition cable wire, the points, adjusted distributor cap, adjusted carb, charged battery, adjusted idle/acceleration spring first time around. Then replaced charging system and voltage regulator the second round. Third round he said just put gas in it and didn't do much investigation.

He didn't do anything with fuel tank, filter, pump, or lines.
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  #116  
Old 08-15-2018, 11:54 AM
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Sounds similar to what I went through when my tank had rust in it.

Had mine boiled out and coated - big mistake. The product used to coat the tank couldn't stand up to the ethanol in the gas and started coming loose cloging up the screen.

So the first problem was the rust then the stuff that was supposed to fix the rust - lol.

My bet is it would cost as much to boil out the tank and have it coated as it would just to buy a new one. Tanks are pretty cheap these days. I had trouble finding a new tank when I replaced mine about 15 years ago.

Here'a a pic of the end of the pick-up tube in the tank with the screen. This is a newer tank and the original screens may be similar but metal. You can see how easy it would be for a hand full of rust to cover the screen and clog it.



Here's a link to the gas tank replacement procedure I wrote up.
Pretty simple - my guess is that it should take a decent mechanic about an hour.

http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_g...eplacement.htm

I think I'd replace the fuel pump too. I haven't had much luck with them lasting more than a year or sometimes two years but you could start with the tank and go from there.

The modern vented cap didn't work for me. It allows air in but not out. That's exactly what it's supposed to do however the problem I had was excess pressure in the tank. That would push gas past the float needles and I'd have a little gas in the oil as well as a flooded condition most of the time in hot weather. Cold weather it was fine. You could have someone drill a small hole (tiny) in the gas cap. That fixed it for me but you run the chance of a couple of drips of gas coming out of the hole if the tank is filled very full when you pull off and gas splashes back up the filler neck. Also will have a little more gas smell out of the hole. I haven't had a problem with it though. Try the vented cap first and see what happens.

I also replaced my steel fuel line from the tank to the engine compartment (runs under the car). I used standard line from NAPA and bent it myself. Guess you would get charged 2-3 hours labor for that task. My old line looked fine when I got it off so may replace the line as a last resort - especially since your filter looks clean.

On the show or cruise thing. I've entered mine in a few shows but most of the time I check the box that says "do not judge". I'm basically there just to have fun - let people see the car and swap stories. I remember entering it in a "Thunderbird" show once. The guy next to me also entered his and was livid when the results came back that his brand new replacement interior had the wrong grain pattern. That's the kind of thing I just don't care for. I find the cruise-in's are much more laid back and fun. Sure there are some folks that are die hard "X" brand but most of the time it's just fun. Talked to a guy at a cruse-in and told him my Dad and Mom bought the car new and I've been riding in it ever since I was a kid. Let he and his 3 kids pile into mine.. The guy got all choked up . Said his parents had one when he was a kid and he always wanted to show his kids what it was like but no one would let them get in their car. I had a blast watching the kids pretend drive the old car - and of course all three had to take a turn "driving". They were there for over an hour and sure - I had to clean some finger prints off the windows etc but I bet those kids are still bugging their Dad to get one. Here's a shot at that cruise-in. As you can see - I'm parked next to 3 Chevrolet's. May have bothered them but it didn't bother me a bit.




Think you're doing an awesome job trying to keep the old car on the road.

Have fun at the show...



Eric
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  #117  
Old 08-15-2018, 12:06 PM
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Default Car Broke Down First Drive

Thanks, Eric, for the reply and the link to your tank replacement! I also did the professional cleaning trick on my OEM tank after I got the car because it was leaking. Like you, I found out that I still had a leaking tank and could have saved myself some money by buying a brand new tank, and sending unit, which I did. I think she found your article because she sent me the pic of your sending unit being taken out of the tank! She probably has read your article, as she is eager to learn as much as she can about this old Bird of hers. She has told me that the fuel filter has not been changed by Bob. It is the same one that was on the car when she bought it. That filter looks pretty clean, but she is going to check her tank herself, using the instructions you and I have given her on how to do it. She is going to shine a flashlight into the tank and look to see if she sees any rust. She is also going to try and ladle some out, going to the bottom of the tank with the ladle, dump it into a clear glass or bottle. Then see what she might have brought up from the bottom of the tank. When she does this, she should have a better idea of what is in that tank. It does look to me, and others like it might be the OEM tank, with the undercoating still on it. Thanks for taking the time to write up the tank article!
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  #118  
Old 08-15-2018, 12:48 PM
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Hey Eric,

I'm with you. I'm not the type of person who would not let kids inside the car for fear of fingerprints. I can see how people can get uptight about it when they want a "showroom" look. But it would be pretty stressful to strive for that all the time. Not very enjoyable. But I get it.

I didn't see the photo you said you posted of that. Did you say you had one with the kids?

Anyway - thanks for the advice. I'm going to try to take a look into the tank as Ray described. As soon as I have time, and it's not raining and dark out by the time I get home from work.

Definitely the goal is to keep this car on the road alive and well.
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  #119  
Old 08-15-2018, 11:53 PM
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Default Car Broke Down First Drive

Kirsten thought she would give it a go and check her fuel sending unit and gas tank. So she prepared to do so, until she found this after peeling the carpet back.. I think she has decided to leave this to a good mechanic rather than try to get that fuel sender out. She is interested in hearing why a PO might have done this. Rust prevention? Here are a couple of pix.
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File Type: jpg IMG_20180815_210452.jpg (142.4 KB, 42 views)
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  #120  
Old 08-16-2018, 12:09 AM
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Normally there's just tar paper underneath the mat. I guess somebody had some extra roofing cement laying around. That's what it looks like to me unless it's very heavy undercoating.

John
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