Top Won't Go Up

[dgs]

Well, it's the time of year when the top goes up so I can put the 'bird to bed. But, this time, the top won't go up. I push on the top switch and I get nothin' If I pull the switch I hear the screw motors run and a 'click, click, click, ...' sound. So, I know the system is getting power and the park / neutral safety switch isn't the problem (had issues there when Grandpa owned it).

I need to go find my convertible diagnostic manual and my shop manual to see what it says, but while it was on my mind I figured I'd ask you guys what to do. What do I need to check first?

[simplyconnected]

Doug, I would check the Power Circuit first, then the Control Circuit.

1, The system is divided into two separate circuits, each fused separately. If you know about the relays, they can be manually energized, and you can see if the corresponding action is working. This rules out many common problems like, does the pump work, does the pump have enough hydraulic oil, etc.

2. It doesn't make sense to pass pump motor current through the small buttons, so there is a Control Circuit. You can look through the electrical diagrams to find the components (like neutral switch, up-down buttons, and limit switches).

After you determine the Power Circuit is good, continue to the Control circuit, checking for power along the way. I usually pick a function that isn't working, and trace backwards to find out why. Hope this helps. If you need specific answers, ask specific questions. I'll be glad to go over the diagrams. - Dave

[davidvend]

After having my top down for the summer I tried to get the top up and all I heard was click click click also. I found that one of the relays were unplugged, Main start relay. I spent alot of time checking things out and found the relay closest to the drivers side front side with the orange wire. How it ever came off is a mistery. Something to check if you have the deck lid open. - David

[dgs]

Haven't been able to dig into it yet. Decklid is down, which makes things difficult. I've had some trouble with it in the past, but jiggling things around under the dash seemed to help a bit, or maybe it just started working again. The mounting nut for the switch is stripped, so it's a bit loose on the bracket. I'm hoping it's something simple like a loose or broken wire under there. If not, I'll likely just store it top down this winter and deal with it in the spring. Getting too cold to be out in the garage.

[simplyconnected]

... I've had some trouble with it in the past, but jiggling things around under the dash seemed to help a bit, or maybe it just started working again...

Looks like its about time to fix it, Doug. Some nice days are still coming after this cold snap. - Dave

[dgs]

Looks like its about time to fix it, Doug. Some nice days are still coming after this cold snap. - Dave

Yeah, but it's stuck down, perfect position for enjoying the last gasps of summer.

[byersmtrco]

You can access the relay board thru the back seat.

[dgs]

Well, I didn't spend much time on it at all before giving up. I did discover that I'm getting a faint clunk when I push the top switch in (to put the top up). That indicates to me that the relay is getting power and is energizing, but for some reason nothing is starting to bring the deck lid up.

As I mentioned before, if I pull the switch out (which would be for putting the top down), I do get the motor to run. Now, since it's down, it shouldn't run, should it?

Anyway, I put the Sta-bil in, topped off the tank and put her away for the season with the top down. Guess I'll dig into it in the spring along with the power window switches and the heater control valve and ...

[simplyconnected]

Doug, I would like to go over this with you over the phone. Troubleshooting isn't as bad as you think. I take small steps and attack one problem at a time.

Most electrical troubleshooters quit when two things don't work because they don't know how to work on one problem at a time, or they get sidetracked. Most of your system works, and we have good diagrams with wire colors. Call me when you get ready (248) 544-8834. - Dave

[dgs]

Dave, that'd be great. I may give this a shot over the winter at some point. I'm much more comfortable diving into and sorting out mechanical problems than electrical.

I'll call you.

[simplyconnected]

I understand, completely... I have a snow blower that I've been putting off. The electric start motor turns, but doesn't engage to run the engine. I sure don't want to pull that **** rope all winter.

Electrical systems (and relay logic) is my forte. Let's get together with proper schematics and put your problems to bed. The more you run your top, the better it gets because all the contacts clean themselves as they pass power. There are no solid state componenets, which makes your system nearly bulletproof.

Call and we will set up a time to fix your top. - Dave

[dgs]

Ok, so I had a little time to play with it this afternoon and I got it open. But, it just worked (eventually), so I'm afraid to close the trunk again because I don't know really what's wrong.

I pulled the back seat and tried to cycle the top. Top was in the trunk, deck lid closed. I pushed the control forward to raise the top and heard a clunk from the relay panel (it seemed) but nothing else. If I pulled on it (to lower the top) I could hear the lock motor run to screw the deck lid down, even though it was already down. It sounded like it was skipping on the threads, which I assume it shouldn't do. It shouldn't run if the deck lid is closed, right?

I got out the manual and read it a bit and assumed that it may be the the deck unlock relay was energizing but not providing power. I pulled the plug on it and reseated it and tried it again. It seemed to thunk a bit louder, but it could have been my imagination. Didn't matter, it still didn't open.

I wondered if I was getting adequate voltage from the battery since it had sat all winter, so I hooked up my battery charger and tried it again. Nothing for 2-3 times and then, voila!, it opened.

Once it started, it worked fine. I opened the decklid and then closed it part way and repeated that. The screw drives were turning and the deck lid was moving fine. I have it propped open now, however, because I'm afraid that it won't re-open again.

Is there a way to test it without actually closing it? I guess I was thinking if I had someone cycle the switch while I pushed the deck closed limit switch, I should be able to simulate closing the deck lid without actually closing the deck lid. Is that right?

Dave - -I owe you a phone call, I haven't forgotten.

[jopizz]

It sounds like you're on the right track with the deck unlock relay. You can test it with the trunk lid open by pushing down on the deck close limit switch next to the lock cylinder and hitting the top switch. Make sure the deck lid is not fully open. 3/4 is fine. Only the screw locks should turn with the top switch up or down.The sounds you hear from the screw locks with the deck closed is normal. The locks have a ratchet type mechanism that prevent them from tightening too much. They will continue to turn if you keep the switch on. This is normal.

[simplyconnected]

jopizz is right. Relay components works best when cycled (a lot). You should 'exercise' the contacts under power. Limit switches have contacts and so do relays and toggle switches. They are **** near bulletproof and very hearty. Electrical spikes never affect them but dirt and non-use will easily hold back 12-volts. When contacts open under load, they clean themselves. This is a two or three-person job. While someone is pushing your 'top' switch, you need to toggle each limit by hand. Have the third person do the other side from you at the same time.

Doug, you don't owe me a call... I'm just glad your system is ok. Actually, there seems to be NOTHING wrong with it (except it needs a little PM).

I hope you change ALL your fluids (top motor fluid, brake fluid, and yes.. antifreeze). I won't mention stale gas. Check your battery.

The weather is getting much better now, so git-r-done. - Dave

[dgs]

Thanks Dave. I just didn't want you to think I was dismissing your generous offer to run through it with me on the phone.

My system's typically only gets run twice a year, down in the spring, up in the fall and maybe trunk access a couple times more. I guess I ought to cycle it more often to keep things clean. How often should I cycle the top, weelky, monthly?

Can you elaborate what you mean by 'under power' and 'under load'? Are you referring to the mechanical load of moving the top and deck lid or the electrical load?

And how would you recommend toggling the limit switches, is there a particular order that should be done? I'm thinking it might be bad to cycle them out of sequence, creating a condition that wouldn't be possible, like closing the top up and top down switches simultaneously.

I guess I could just run the system except for closing the deck lid, cycling that one manually so I don't get back in a situation where I can't access the trunk. Once it runs a few cycles without error, then I could close it back up.