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  #11  
Old 06-22-2018, 02:45 PM
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Default 430MEL Water Pump Pulleys...

Hi Henry, NO, I am not saying that. Regarding the 430MEL engine and Squarebirds, the non-AC 430's already have a 2 groove pulley on them. You need 1 more pulley to convert it to AC, as far as pulleys go. So Ford added, in the case of the 430MEL, a single groove pulley that goes in front of the OEM 2 groove pulley that comes on the non-AC equipped 430MEL engines. That is my understanding. However, as John said, the B8S 8509-A 2 groove pulley for the 430MEL non-AC Squarebirds listed in the 1949-1959 Ford Car Parts Catalog for the '59 SB, might have later been replaced with the PB8M 8509-C 2 groove pulley. So what we might see is that on Rob's '60 Squarebird, and that of Carl's if they could see it, is not B8S 8509-A, but maybe a PB8M 8509-C 2 groove pulley. Here is what the '49-'59 Ford Car Parts Catalog says.

On the 1958-1959 352 Squarebirds w/ A/C the Water Pump Pulley is listed as a B8A 8509-F with 6.30" O.D.-Double sheave-3.49" sheave depth-.628" I.D.- .38" sheave width-used with alternator system & dual idler pulley. (that is the reason why those with 352's had to find either an additional single groove pulley, or the 3 groove C0AE 8509-A pulley to convert to AC to have enough belts to drive everything needed with AC added). The latter turned out to be as difficult to locate as the 1 groove water pump pulley for the 430MEL engine.. But we did find a couple.

However, on the '59 SB 430MEL non-AC, the pulley was the B8S 8509-A, 7.10" O.D.-double sheave-2.37" depth-1.00" I.D.-.38" sheave width-standard cooling..

Now I will look at the 1960-1964 Ford Car Parts Catalog...

The '60-'64 Ford Car Parts Catalog lists the following for the 1960 non A/C 352 SB. 1 B8A 8509-A 1 sheave pulley, 7.32 O.D..

For the 1960 352 SB w/ A/C. 1 the aforementioned C0AE 8509-A 3 groove pulley, (1) 1/2", (2) 3/8" pulleys 7.43 O.D. & 6.30 O.D. is needed.

For the 430 1960 SB w A/C, they added a 1 groove pulley, B9SZ 8509-A. It does NOT say that the non-AC 1960 SB comes with a 2 groove pulley on it. However, it IS mentioned in the 1949-1959 Ford Car Parts Catalog that the 1959 430MEL non-A/C SB had the B8S 8509-A 2 groove pulley installed on them from the factory. So when adding AC to the '59-'60 SB, they just had to add the 1 groove B9SZ 8509-A pulley to it. Why that is not mentioned in this Ford Car Parts Catalog, I do not know. Perhaps because it was already in the '49-'59 book.
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  #12  
Old 06-23-2018, 04:46 AM
OX1 OX1 is offline
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So what you are saying (that is directly applicable to my car) is the 59,
430 non AC needs an update to the original 2 groove pulley for WP/Gen??

Seems right, as Section 4B here, does talk about a new 2 groove pulley.

http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_g...stallation.htm

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway, it seems left part here

http://www.squarebirds.org/vbulletin...1&d=1529627131

Seems very close to this.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-1961-19...item3b088f3f93

But the part on right (in above pic), I have never seen for sale.
This might be the unique SB block mount, that is really the hard part
to find (besides the AC pulley that is).

Also, it was speculated in post #7 of this thread.

http://squarebirds.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=20346

That the upper bracket was aftermarket. Looks like the upper bracket
you need to install compressor vertical, like it was done on Lincolns.

https://barnfinds.com/driver-or-rest...l-street-find/

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And, what was the final story on this bracket, as I thought that was the correct 430 SB
compressor horizontal mount bracket?

http://squarebirds.org/vbulletin/att...1&d=1460060616

From this thread

http://squarebirds.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=20346

That looks more like the bracket shown here.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-...MENT%20430.jpg

In fact, isn't the PN EDJ-2882-B, called out in the 430 install diagram here
(hard to read PN there, but it looks closer to that, than this B9ME- 2882-B).

http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_g...stallation.htm

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And finally, here is an excellant video that shows how a york
mounts on vertical on a Lincoln MEL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaPjFJcgqfw

Of note, there does not appear to be a way to use
Lincoln compressor mount, unless you swap lid on PS
reservoir, adding long fill tube that reaches up along
passenger side of compressor.

Some pics I grabbed from that video.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-...PR%20MOUNT.jpg
http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-...PR%20MOUNT.jpg
http://luxjo.supermotors.net/59%20T-...PR%20MOUNT.jpg

Guy in video says he does not have the upper bracket, that covers front
of drivers valve cover, installed yet.

So that's a lot to digest, but it appears the factory/dealer installed at least
some of the 430 compressors vertical with the brackets shown in this thread,
but CAA probably based their kit on the horizontal mount York setup (as that
is the bracket shown in fords install instructions).
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Last edited by OX1 : 06-23-2018 at 09:31 AM.
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  #13  
Old 07-26-2018, 01:03 AM
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Default 430MEL Water Pump Pulleys...

Sorry for the delay on getting back to this. I have been hunting for other parts for this 430MEL non-AC conversion to AC conversion for Rob. Yes, for the 1960 Squarebird, it does appear that even though there is a 2 groove pulley on the 430 non-AC car from the factory, what is in place needs to be replaced also. But for the 1959 430 Squarebird, it looks like you would need the 3 groove B8A-8509-C triple groove pulley. Which throws another wrench into things on doing this conversion for Tbirds with 430 engines. I just recently re-read that Instruction Sheet, when I was trying to find the original copy of it, and could not do so. It DOES state in that 1960 Installation Sheet to "install the NEW double sheave pulley, then the add-on compressor single groove pulley, with the smooth back side to the rear"... I was discussing this with Carl today and he sent me a picture of three pulleys. One a 430 w/AC, and next to it a 430 without AC, the one on the 430 without AC. You can see that the one without AC is a larger sized pulley. Then he showed the single groove pulley below it. If you put that single groove pulley on top of either of the two double grooved pulley, the holes in the single groove pulley will line up. But there was a reason why Ford wanted that 2 groove non-AC pulley replaced. Carl thinks it had to do with the speed of the pulleys driving the generator, and other components... So anyone who wants to do this conversion is going to have to come up not only with the York compressor mounting bracket, EDJ-2882-B, which I am still looking for, after contacting some 1 1/2 dozen companies, but also both the smaller 2 groove pulley and the single groove pulley. Now, looking at the Osborne electrical manual for the 1959 Squarebird, it shows that single groove pulley to be a B9ME-2884-A. That B9ME, makes it a Mercury part, I gather. I think Carl said that is what the 1960 Osborne manual also said. But it might have been someone else who said that. Here is that picture that Carl sent me, and pix of what that EDJ-2882-B looks like, including the rusty looking one that I thought was flat. It is box like and IS the mounting bracket called for in the Instruction Sheet I.S. 390.. This has been confirmed also by several other very well known 430 Tbird owners. I drew a yellow line on the rusty bracket to indicate where the boxy area was, because when I first looked at it, I thought it was one long flat piece...
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Last edited by YellowRose : 07-26-2018 at 01:18 AM.
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  #14  
Old 07-26-2018, 09:16 AM
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I have been slowly adding the classic auto air system to my 430, and now that my engine is in, I am working on a compressor mount. It looks like the original bracket attached to a water pump bolt and a hole in the block and then also utilizes a bolt on the exhaust manifold. Can anyone confirm this?
As for the pulley situation, I agree that the water pump pulley on the non ac cars is too big, hopefully I can fin a smaller one so that it will speed up the water pump. Now to drive the ac compressor I plan on using a third pulley on the crankshaft that was originally driving the power steering. I will then use a separate belt from the ac compressor to the new power steering pump. I came up with this plan after seeing this same setup used by classic auto air on a Mustang.
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  #15  
Old 07-26-2018, 06:15 PM
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Default 352 & 430MEL AC Water Pump Pulleys...

Here is a better 1959 Tbird 352 & 430 Graphics breakdown to view. To view it better, zoom in or use CTRL +. Do it again if you need it larger.

The Ford Parts Catalog lists the:
1958 & 1959 352 Tbird Water Pump Pulley as - B8A-8509-C / 5751573 (old Ford Part #) Triple Sheave Pulley...

1959 352 Tbird water Pump Pulley as - B9A-8509-G

Both of those are listed as Water Pump Pulleys for the Full Sized Ford A cars.

The only 352 Triple Sheave water pump pulley for the S-Squarebirds is for:
1958 352 B8A-8509-D.

The water pump pulley for the 1959 430 AC engine is the B9ME-2884-A.

The single groove pulley for the 1960 430 AC engine is B9SZ-8509-A according to the Ford Parts Catalog.

The first link is for the 1959 352 Graphics page. The second, the 1959 430 Graphics page.

http://www.squarebirds.org/SB/1959-T...C- Graphic.jpg

http://www.squarebirds.org/SB/1959-T...AC-Graphic.jpg
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Last edited by YellowRose : 07-27-2018 at 12:57 AM. Reason: Additional comments
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  #16  
Old 07-27-2018, 02:55 AM
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Default 430MEL Water Pump Pulleys...

I have a possible source for someone who would be interested in making the 430 Yahoo compressor mounting bracket that is nearly impossible to find. A drawback for years in converting the non-AC 430MEL equipped cars to AC has been finding the EDJ-2882-B mounting bracket for the 430 engine. The following cars had the 430 either as an option or as standard equipment.

19581960: all Continental models Marks III, IV, V as standard equipment (430 only)

19581960: all Lincoln models as standard equipment (430 only)

19581960: all Mercury models as standard or optional equipment (383 and 430 only)

19591960: all Ford Thunderbird models as optional equipment (430 only)

19611965: all Lincoln Continental models as standard equipment (430 only)

Classic Auto Air has been making their "Perfect Fit" aftermarket AC equipment for the 352CI equipped 1958-1960 Tbirds for years, with an optional compressor mounting bracket, and a good number of owners have upgraded their non-AC Squarebird with AC. Unfortunately, to my knowledge, they have not been selling many of this unit for their 430 non-AC Tbirds because they do not have a universal mounting bracket to allow installation. I know of one who does have that kit on it because the installer made a mounting bracket to make it work. I suspect that there are a good number of 430 non-AC equipped Tbird & Lincoln/Continental owners that would love to upgrade to the CAA equipment, IF the mounting bracket was available. Of course, if you have good metal and welding skills, you could probably make your own bracket.

If you have an interest in having the EDJ-2882-B mounting bracket re-created, please send me a PM and let me know. I can put you in touch with the person who would consider doing this if the demand is big enough.
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  #17  
Old 07-27-2018, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YellowRose View Post
But there was a reason why Ford wanted that 2 groove non-AC pulley replaced. Carl thinks it had to do with the speed of the pulleys driving the generator, and other components... So anyone who wants to do this conversion is going to have to come up with both the smaller 2 groove pulley and the single groove pulley.
Another reason to probably start with the available Lincoln WP and AC, WP pulley. They appear to be the correct (or very close to what Ford spec'd for Birds) diameters.

As mentioned, dia of non AC, 430 WP pulley.




And Lincoln WP and AC pulley Dia's.




Classic Auto Air could do themselves a favor and just specify you start with the Lincoln stuff.
At least then, you only need one custom part (compressor bracket). OK, maybe two with
I'm guessing fan spacer will need adjusting, but I'd guess most are upgrading fan somehow
anyway.
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  #18  
Old 07-27-2018, 09:11 PM
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Default 430MEL Water Pump Pulleys...

Henry, the measurement on that water pump pulley with the micrometer on it, showing 6.124 is that the 1 groove pulley that goes in front of the 2 groove pulley? Do you already have the necessary 430 AC water pump pulley, and the 1 groove pulley? If so, please let me know, because I have been looking for you also, as I am for the EDJ-2882-B mounting bracket.
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  #19  
Old 07-28-2018, 07:28 PM
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Just finished tracking together an ac compressor bracket for my 430. It needs another brace added still, but by using the pictures of the original one that Ray posted it was only about a 5 hour project.
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  #20  
Old 08-18-2018, 01:33 AM
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Default 430MEL Water Pump Pulleys...

Just so you know, I have contacted all my sources again, to see if anyone has any of the water pump pulleys needed to do the 352 or the 430 AC conversions. So far, no one has found any of these much needed pulleys. For the 352, I did post, as I recall, that Classic Auto Air did tell me that many who have done the 352 conversion have been using Chevy small block 2 groove water pump pulleys to give you the 3 grooves that you need.
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