Squarebird Wheel Specs

[Deanj]

Yes, these are Coker Tires Nostalgia model. I considered taking this one off myself and trying to remedy, but I'll spend as much as taking it somewhere else.

It can't be the wheel since I refinished yours (you saw the photos), and so it could be the tire bead itself. The shop just keeps trying to seal it the same way over and over again. Maybe I need a new shop with a different approach.

Dean

[OX1]

Yes, these are Coker Tires Nostalgia model. I considered taking this one off myself and trying to remedy, but I'll spend as much as taking it somewhere else.

It can't be the wheel since I refinished yours (you saw the photos), and so it could be the tire bead itself. The shop just keeps trying to seal it the same way over and over again. Maybe I need a new shop with a different approach.

Dean

I meant why can't you remove tires on/off the front with stock rims. I did it several times with no issues.

[Deanj]

I meant why can't you remove tires on/off the front with stock rims. I did it several times with no issues.

You mean removing the tire off the wheel after breaking the bead? I know there are several methods for breaking the bead, but I'm not comfortable doing any. I'm concerned I'll damage the bead.

Even after that you need bead sealer which is probably the same stuff they use.

[jopizz]

I meant why can't you remove tires on/off the front with stock rims. I did it several times with no issues.

There's a reason the shop manual says to mount and dismount the tires with the outside of the wheel DOWN. If you've been doing it the opposite way and haven't damaged your tires then you're lucky. I've seen many tires ruined doing it that way.

John

[Deanj]

I can't say I told the shop how to mount the tires originally last year. But I've seen them in action and they are oblivious to mounting the tires correctly even after I told them outside down. It would interesting to see where liability would be assigned if the tires were damaged.

All I know is one tire refuses to seal on a newly refinished wheel, and the shop just does the same thing-take it off and re-seal with the same stuff-then wait for the result.

[jopizz]

the shop just does the same thing-take it off and re-seal with the same stuff-then wait for the result.

Tire beads are self sealing. There's no sealant that should be used. Other than some soapy water there shouldn't be anything else used when mounting tires. If the bead doesn't seal on the new rim then your tire is the problem, not the rim.

John

[simplyconnected]

At Ford, our tire machines mount all the tires with the rim face up. First, they spritz soap on the tire (there is no brush or rag involved). Then the tire falls on the rim. A 'crowder' pushes the tire to one side, then rollers 'fold' both tire beads over the rim at once. Next, the inflation machine shoots air into the bead to fill the tire. That part takes a blink of an eye. We never remove the valve stem cap. They must do at least five completely mounted and balanced tires per minute, just to keep up with the assembly line speed.

These guys in the tire stores are good but we do our tires using nothing but automation. Mistakes? Out of over 4,000 (yep, 800 cars times 5 tires) per day in each assembly plant, about three get torn. Ford only pays ~$20/per tire.

I had an old tire that wouldn't stay inflated. I 'broke it down' and used Silicone II around the bead. Once applied, let it 'skin over' for 15 minutes before inflating. That gives conformity to irregularities between the tire and rim while allowing excess RTV to come out. - Dave

[Deanj]

I had an old tire that wouldn't stay inflated. I 'broke it down' and used Silicone II around the bead. Once applied, let it 'skin over' for 15 minutes before inflating. That gives conformity to irregularities between the tire and rim while allowing excess RTV to come out. - Dave

I'm willing to try that at the store. I don't know what they do with tires that won't seal other than what they did.

But if my tire leaks on the whitewall outside and if that side is down when these guys try to re-seal, how do you see what your doing in order to seal the bottom (outside) bead?

Dean

[Deanj]

Dave, your RTV worked!

The bead was damaged badly where it was leaking. When I suggested to the shop owner this might result from not mounting the tire inside up, they said their machine couldn't mount it that way due to the wheel's inherent design. It must mount this wheel outside up. Somebody's wrong here.

Anyhow, they put a large bead of RTV, waited an hour to get everything good and dry, and then re-mounted the tire (outside up). It's not leaking. I think the shop learned something, too!

Dean

[jopizz]

I'm not sure what type of machine they have but all the old style machines I've seen can mount them either way. As for the RTV I agree it can fill some imperfections in the rim but I'm not sure about fixing a damaged bead in the tire. It remains to be seen whether it can survive the wear and tear of normal driving.

John

[simplyconnected]

Glad I could save your tire, Deanj.

Believe it, John. Silicone is impervious to extreme hot and cold. It also flexes easier than rubber. The best part is, it comes off easily when the bead is separated, not like glue.

My method does not include waiting an hour. I wait about 15 minutes max, just enough time for the surface to skin over. If an area is too thick, I want the liquid center to ooze out the sides. This leaves a perfectly formed filler for the voids.

When applying, smear it into the rubber and the rim. Don't just put a round 3/8" bead around the assembly and wait an hour.

Another trick I uses is to do the above, fill the tire so the bead seats, then deflate the tire and wait another 20 minutes. Again, the idea is, I don't want to lose all the liquid RTV. If the void is excessive, all the liquid RTV will be forced out when 32-PSI of air is behind it. - Dave

EDIT: As a side note, I use RTV for lots of things. It's rubbery and springy, it won't rust, it's dielectric, etc...
One time, my brother-in-law had an American Motors 'fishbowl' Pacer with a broken stop light switch. Of course, it was Sunday and all stores were closed. Anyway, he won't drive a car without stop lights. So, I dissected the switch. It had a broken contact and the spring behind it was also broken. This contact 'bridged' two contacts. So, I cut a piece of #14 solid wire (from Romex), built a small cardboard form, placed the wire in the bottom and covered the top of the wire with RTV. An hour later, I removed the cardboard and let the rest cure.

Room Temperature Vulcanize cures with moisture (yes, it cures nicely under water). Humid, warm temperatures and better air-flow speed up the process.

When I pared the cured RTV with common razor blade and stuck 'my invention' into the switch housing, it worked flawlessly. Actually, it worked until the car finally died many years later.

[jopizz]

I have nothing against RTV. It's great stuff and has plenty of uses. However if I have a choice between trusting the lives of me and my family on a $5.00 tube of RTV holding air in a tire or spending $75-100 on a new tire I think I'll go the new tire route. I'm funny that way.

John

[simplyconnected]

Silicone II is made by General Electric. If it's good enough for NASA, it's good enough for me. We all depend on silicone sealer whether you know it or not. We depend on urethane as well. Your whole windshield is held in by a simple bead of urethane.

BTW, confidence in tire sealer isn't any different from a valve stem that also cost five bucks for all four of them. - Dave

[jopizz]

If it's good enough for NASA, it's good enough for me.

Luckily they don't have any Northeast potholes in space. LOL

John

[Deanj]

Gentlemen, this operation was more principle and determination. I didn't learn the bead was damaged until we tried the RTV. Until then this 3000 mile tire just wasn't sealing on a rusty wheel, which I thought the culprit, and then wouldn't seal on a newly refinished wheel.

These Coker Nostalgia tires are not $75 tires. They cost over $200 each worth it or not. If I thought a blowout a possibility, I would scrap the tire. I think the problem could revert to a slow leak. As much as the $200 price affected my decision to try and save the tire, I might have gone for 4 different overpriced wide whitewalls size P225 75R 14, if these exist, just to try to put everything right. (It seems the 225 size is an issue in American Classic and Goodrich.

Well, it's done and the "Forum" came through again.