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Old 10-04-2010, 11:57 PM
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Well Ray, your Thunderbird is now being featured in NZ Rodder magazine all the way over in Kiwi land so it's certainly not a Garage Queen eh!

Looks good, a shame some young ladies block the view a bit...
A Thunderbirder from the Land of the Long White Cloud.
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Old 10-05-2010, 12:26 AM
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Default Yellow Rose - A Garage Queen??

Hi Tom! I got your PM also. Thanks for letting me know that Rose is getting some attention in Kiwi Land. That is probably Alistairs doings!

Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
'59 Tbird "The Yellow Rose Of Texas" aka "Tweety Bird"
"It's Hip To Be Square"
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Old 10-20-2014, 08:29 PM
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Default Any Advice For Local TBIRD Club Car Show Judging?

Originally Posted by Alan H. Tast, AIA View Post
You just hit a "hot button" with me. Any time you go to a local show with "judging" it'll be a crap shoot as to how they're handling things. More often than not "judging" is one or two people with only a few minutes of time to spend on each car and limited knowledge of what they're looking at. Often, people have been tasked with selecting a car for an award or several awards just because they happened to be at the right place at the right time. Sure, they may have a "judging" sheet but it probably will be very rudimentary, maybe asking to rate a specific item on a scale from 1-10, in order give them something to add up once they get back to the tally table. Factor in the "good buddy" system when judges let personal biases and relationships determine who gets what, and you'll soon begin to sniff out events where quality and objectivity really are important versus playing favorites with friends of the sponsors, judges or show promoters. And, if you look close at how classes are broken out, you may see some of the biases the hosting organization has.

You also have to pick your battles. With all the modifications you've done, if you take the car to a show put on by the local AACA chapter where the members pride themselves on maintaining authenticity, you'll get a different opinion than if you went to one put on by street rodders or custom car enthusiasts. Even a Goodguys event will be different than the Kustom Kemps of America's "Lead Sled Nationals" so don't expect things to be the same from event to event.

Case in point: I attended a show put on by a local Mustang club with my '63 T-bird, a national show-winner a few years ago and detailed with the highest regard to authenticity and factory correctness. "Judges" looked it over and took notes, but they had no clue as to anything other than outward appearance. And when the time came to ask for a copy of the judging sheets, it was "oops, sorry, we threw them away" as an excuse to provide them. Appearance and relationships were everything. And these were supposed to be MCA-certified "judges."

At a similar show by another Mustang club, the guy next to me also had a '63 - very nice, but lots of little deviations from original. He also was a member of said Mustang club and just got the car at Barrett-Jackson earlier in the year. Guess who got the award?

And, with exception of VTCI Regional and International Conventions, I've never gotten judging results back from a hosting group, including International Show Car Association (ISCA). That part really gets my goat - we'll take your money for the privilege of showing, but we won't let you know what our judges found. At least at a VTCI Convention if I have had my car judged I'll get the sheets back so I can work on items for the next time.

So, my expectations of judging at events other than a VTCI-sanctioned Regional or International Convention (which is a much different kink of event than the local parking lot show) are that (1) the people doing the judging probably have an agenda ("I don't like Fords" or "unless it's got lots of chrome or the most-current fad items it doesn't deserve my attention"), (2) you won't get the judging sheets because they don't want you to be able to compare notes with others, and (3) their judging criteria will be nowhere near what I'd expect from a national club which has a true judging program with detailed judging forms, manuals spelling out critera for review, etc.
Hi Alan and All,

This may not be the best forum for this discussion, but my question is from the perspective of a local TBird Club vice president, who finds himself deeply involved in judging and rules discussions with other club officers and members. We are trying to improve the "crap shoot" aspect of judging at our annual All Tbird show.

We have formed a Rules Committee to look into how we organize our Classes and do our judging. We had a pretty nice turnout this past August with 48 cars entered. We use a formal judging form (100 points max) and judge the usual areas - exterior, interior, engine comp, trunk, undercarriage. We do not deduct points for safety related items, and allow up to 3 other modifications before you get stuck in the Modified class.

On the downside, we are a small club and no one involved would consider themselves an official, qualified judge, but that said, we are trying to improve the process and get some input from others on what works and what doesn't. Just for example, we have 15 judged Classes and this year eight of them had 2 or fewer cars entered. We also had a member throw a hissy fit because someone with a Cond 3 driver won a First Place award.... in a Class with only one entrant!

Below is what our classes look like. The number in parens is the # cars in that class at our 2014 show. We are considering compressing these Classes but adding divisions such as Primary,Driver,Modified across the Classes. We are interested in learning how other local clubs approach this. We have the VTCI Volume 1 Concours Rules, and plan to incorporate some of what is in there into our rules as well.

As the Acting Chairperson of the Rules Committee of the Buffalo Thunderbird Club, I would personally appreciate any feedback you or any other sqbirds member would care to share!

Attached Images
File Type: jpg judged classes.JPG (27.8 KB, 53 views)
Don Vincent
Amherst NY
1960 HT 352
TBird Registry 34042
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