getting to the headlight switch

[troubsullivan]

hello all,
i'm still waiting for all my manuals to come in re my 60ht but in the meantime i can't stand not working on something and as my dash lights don't work i figure i will check out my headlight switch. how hard is it to get to? i hate to take things apart without a manual but if it's not too hard i might give it a shot this weekend. really enjoying reading all the posts, this seems to be a great forum.
regards,
troub

[YellowRose]

getting to the headlight switch

Hi Troub! It is not to difficult to get to the headlight switch. I will send you, to your email address you gave me, a copy of the wiring schematic for the 1960 Tbird. I will also see what I can scan out of my '59 manual about the light switch and see if that will help you until your manual gets there. It could be something as easy as a blown fuse. Or all the dash light bulbs might be blown. Or it could be they are not hooked up. Check your email in a few minutes for the wiring schematic.

I just sent you the entire lighting system section from the '59 shop manual. Check and see if you have any email from me. You might have to check your Spam folder or Deleted folder. If you do not have me in your address book, you might want to add me, and webmaster@squarebirds.com also. These pages should get you started this weekend and help you until your '60 manuals show up. Please let me know if you got my emails!

[Howard Prout]

As Ray said, it's not too dificult to get to the headlight switch. There is a push tab on the switch housing that you have to depress and then you can pull out the knob and stem. Once you have the knob out, you will see that the bezel has four indents at the quarter points. Using a wide srewdriver that just fits between two opposing indents, press in and turn the bezel 1/4 turn counter-clockwise - the bezel should release and free the switch. There are two fuses on the back of the headlight switch, I think one is for the head and tail lights etc. and the other is probably for your dash lights. To get easier access to the headlight switch, you may want to remove the fuel/temp gauges. The bezel for it pulls straight out and then there are four screws holding the gauge plate.

[Guest]

Hey Patrick,
UNDO BATTERY FIRST!!! Before working on dash always undo battery!!!
Richard D. Hord

[Dan Leavens]

Richard great point, especially if you want your hair to remain straight

[simplyconnected]

...UNDO BATTERY FIRST!!! Before working on dash always undo battery!!!

I'm with Richard and Dan... If Ray's garage mechanic disconnected the battery, he wouldn't have set Rose on fire. There are a lot of open connections and close quarters behind the dash. A ring or watch could really mess things up with the power on.

On your headlight switch, the long fuse works all the time. The short fuse (at the back) is only energized when the headlights are on. On my Galaxie, Ford connected the backup lights to this fuse (and possibly the dash lights). So, if you are taking voltage readings on the small fuse and don't find +12, try it again with the headlights on.

(I've been thinking about this lately) The drawings show wires attached to your switches, but none show switch setting continuity for:
Turn signal switch plate,
Headlight switch and
Key Switch.
The drawings simply show a 'box' with wires attached.

Another feature that makes my skin crawl, is how they switched the front parking lights. When you pull the headlight knob half-way out the parking lights energize... but when you pull it all the way out, the parking lights go out and the headlights energize. I think that was Ford's way to conserve the generator's meager 35-amp output. What a nightmare for any motorcyclist approaching an oncoming car with a burned out headlight. Dept Of Transportation changed that, and so did I on my classics.

Good point about disconnecting the battery, Rich.

EDIT: We have found the RHEOSTAT in the dimmer to be a problem for dash lights. It is the porcelain disk in the front of the headlight switch. The brass portions naturally turn to a patina (oxide) that stops 12-volts from passing through. In particular, the center 'donut' needs to be cleaned so it will pass power to the ni-chrome wire. Some of the guys bypassed the rheostat and are happy. I made mine work. Do a SEARCH for "RHEOSTAT" to see some of the posts. - Dave

[troubsullivan]

thanks to all for the quick replies!
ray, i got your email. your are the man! many thanks.
i will keep you all posted on the dash light progress!
great reminder on the battery, i have to admit i probably wouldn't have thought about it and just started digging!
thanks again, i hope to post some pics soon.
troub

[Guest]

Hey Dan,
Thanks! I forgot to mention when I was working inside my dash trying to figure out what lights went where. I made sure nothing was touching any metal, hooked up battery and was fiddling around with the wires and I got the shock of my life! I don't know what I touched but it jared me good
Richard D. Hord

[redneck]

Hey Troub

Try this out before you tear into your lights. The dash lights work with a rheostat type disc. You need to pull the light switch out and then turn it to get the dash lights to light and I found that after I turned my light switch back and forth a number of times, I was able to get the dash lights working again. I think that after a few years, it oxidized and I was able to get a good connection again. I am pleased to say that all the dash lights still work great. Good luck to you.

Redneck

[troubsullivan]

hey redneck, thanks for the tip. i have already removed my instrument cluster cover though so i am knee deep in wires! removing it was not too bad and at least now i can see it all and check the wires out which is a good thing as i can see some previous jury rigged stuff! here are my results so far:
tested some new bulbs and no dice on dash lights. DO HAVE the gen and oil lights though. those were working before i started digging.

fuel, temp, speedo work fine (no lights on them though) clock not working and no lights there either.

radio not working at all.

pulled light switch, cleaned the rheostat (it was oxidized) put it back and still no dash lights. front parking and headlights worked fine both before and after pulling and
cleaning of the switch. both fuses on the back of the switch looked good and i have blinker lights. overhead light not working however.

i have a relay mounted on the firewall near the hood handle that i can't find in my wiring manual. i know my voltage reg for the intruments is located on the back of the instrument cluster cover, i see that. what is this other relay? it's about the same size as the cluster relay and held on by one screw to the firewall. i have a burned piece of wire leading from one tab and that's not good. no wire from the other tab at all. any help would be appreciated. i want some dash lights!

thanks,
troub

[Guest]

Hey Dan,
Now you know these have to be grounded right? When I was working on Christine's dash wiring I found me a good place and mounted me a ground wire long enough to reach the outside of bulb socket. I check each and every bulb and marked where they went. Here are the before and after pictures!
Richard D. Hord

[simplyconnected]

Richard really does nice work, doesn't he?

...fuel, temp, speedo work fine (no lights on them though) clock not working and no lights there either.
radio not working at all.
pulled light switch, cleaned the rheostat (it was oxidized) put it back and still no dash lights. ...overhead light not working however.

i have a relay mounted on the firewall near the hood handle that i can't find in my wiring manual. i know my voltage reg for the intruments is located on the back of the instrument cluster cover, i see that. what is this other relay? it's about the same size as the cluster relay and held on by one screw to the firewall. i have a burned piece of wire leading from one tab and that's not good. no wire from the other tab at all. any help would be appreciated. i want some dash lights!..

troub and redneck, I bought a new old stock (NOS) rheostat. Remember, new in the box, straight from the dealership. At first I didn't understand what I was looking at. My meter told me the real story.


At first, I thought the center section was just another porcelain piece, designed to insulate the stem area. Oh, no... power comes from the center, and an internal wire attaches to the brass 'ring' at the beginning of the ni-chrome wire.

CORROSION all over the place, prevents +12 from passing through the center. The green specs in the center doughnut gave it away. I had no idea it was metal OR that it passed power. I scraped the outer brass ring because it was obviously green (and still shows witness-patina).

You can turn the headlight stick until doomsday, but you're never going to help the center pick up +12. It needs to be properly cleaned by hand. Most of the guys think their ni-chrome wire is broken, but I've NEVER found a broken one... it's always corroded.

The two tits on the bottom are the detent for your dome light. Do your door switches work? Bulb good?

Your clock and radio have separate fuses. Both fuses are in an inline fuseholder next to where the wires enter each device.

The relay on your firewall is probably an add-on from a previous owner. You can follow the wires to see what it operated (unless they're gone). Whatever it operated smoked the wires. It is common for a 'tab' to be vacant. They probably only used the normally open side. Did you find your signal flasher relay?

I would love to see some pictures of your wiring and your devices, particularly where you have burned wires. Let's see your rheostat, too. That can easily be checked with a good multimeter (VOM). - Dave

[troubsullivan]

i'm getting frustrated. here is my progress (or lack of)...

got nos switch, reostat is clean, hooked it up and still no dash guage lights. i see a few odd things when i reviewed my wires against what's in the manuals.

1. page 27 of the electrical assembly manual shows a double wire coming off the ignition switch (at about 8 a clock) one orange and one black. i have the orange one but the black one is not there. (you can see where it used to be but it's snapped off right at the connector) they both show as going up into the loom.

2. page 27 also shows a black wire (same code 30) going from the top connection of the constant voltage regulator (right above one of the turn signals) and going up into the loom. i don't have this wire. Page 2 of the wiring manual shows a circuit from the ignition switch to the top connection of the voltage regulator. is this the same wire as on page 27 of the assembly manual? you can't trace it in that manual because it just goes into the loom from both ends.

the extra relay i mentioned in the previous post that is on my firewall looks suspiciously like a later model constant voltage reg. so i'm wondering if a previous owner added one there to try and solve a problem with the original one. i am a total novice at electrical stuff and it really frustrates the heck out of me! would the constant voltage reg have anything to do with my dash lights not working? does anyone know if the wire i mentioned above does just go straght from the ignition switch to the regulator? and how would i check to see if my constant voltage reg is good?

how do i know if the system is grounded properly? is there just one ground for all 14 or so dash lights? if so where would it be? thanks for the replies thus far, as you can see i definitely need the help!

[simplyconnected]

Pat, let's do this methodically. I have a diagram, not a manual (but they should be identical).

Start at the beginning, at the battery +12. A Yellow wire comes off the starter solenoid and goes to your Headlight Switch (B-stab), first. It's a 1/4" stab. That's where all the power comes from under your dash. If that stab is broken off on your Headlight Sw, you need a new one. They are available new, and they come up used, on eBay, periodically.

Let's continue: That yellow wire 'daisy-chains' to your IGNition Switch (B-post). It's a threaded post. Get a pattern, here? Even today, we call +12 wires, "B" on the schematics.

Now, we've gone too far. Your dash lights come from the headlight switch, when you pull it half way out. There's no reason to talk about the IGNition SWitch for dash lights.

The schematics and drawings don't show what's happening inside the headlight switch, but B goes through a fuse to D. D, as in dash & dome lights. So two wires come off of D and go to door switches, but one of them is short; it goes to the rheostat/dome light switch. Now you know where power comes from for your dash lights (and your dome light).

Terminal stab "I" on your Headlight Switch is fed directly from the rheostat. If you put your meter on a good ground, and the other prod on D (with the headlight switch pulled half way out), you should see +12. Leave the prod on ground, and move the other to "I". As you turn the knob, you should see the voltage go from full +12, down to nearly nothing. If you don't see that, revisit your rheostat and connections, again.

When you had the rheostat apart, did you detect continuity between the center donut and the ni-chrome wire? Use the OHM scale for this with the power OFF (battery disconnected). Measure from the center donut, all the way around the coil.

With the switch assembled and the power on, did you see where power comes from the center and goes out the wiper? Check this and get back to me.

All those lights plug into bare steel sockets. That steel housing assembly must have a good ground. Connect a separate stranded copper wire from the steel housing to a solid body ground. If you don't have anything else, a lamp cord will work. None of the dash lights will work without a grounded lampholder. Usually, if one is grounded, they all are.

You can make a 'jumper' wire for one lamp, just to test it. Wrap the wire tightly around the lampholder steel, and attach the other end to a solid ground. Then turn on your dash lights to test the bulb. - Dave

[troubsullivan]

help!

thursday's latest developments............

since it's out of the car anyway i used a continuity tester on the guage clusters constant voltage regulator and it tests fine.

with the car battery unhooked i hooked the continuity tester to the instrument light cluster wire at the headlight switch end and picked a bulb socket rom the speedo guage at random and hooked the other end of the tester to that. tested fine.

hooked the car battery back up and using one of those simple 6-12volt testers checked for power at the instrument light connector on the headlight switch. have power there.

then went back to the bulb socket on the speedo guage and using the volt tester checked for power at the socket. have power there. while the tester was at the socket i turned the stem of the headlight switch all the way till it clicked. meter read no power at the socket then. turned the stem back completely the other way. meter read power at the socket again.

when i put a bulb in (the bulb is a good one) i still get no light, can anyone figure this out by reading the last two posts? i would really appreciate it.
thanks,
troub