Negative camber problem?

[Patreer]

Good day all!

I'm new on the forum. I just got myself a 1960 TBird and I'm in the process of having it repaired. Apart from changing fuel pump, generator, oil pan, I recently have the front suspensions done.

I realized last night that the upper arm was rubbing against the tires on both sides.

I had ordered the following parts for each side to do the job (I did not do it myself & brought the parts to a garage):
- Upper Ball Joint
- Upper A-arm Shaft with Bushings
- Wheel Cylinder, 1 3/32 inch bore
- bushing & hardware

Is there someone having had the same problem after changing similar part.

Thanks

[simplyconnected]

Welcome to Squarebirds.org, Pat. I'm honored to answer your first post.

One of our members had the upper ball joint on the wrong side. That made a big difference in his alignment.

The upper mounts from the top, down. the lower mounts from the bottom, up.

If your wheels and tires are the same, there is no reason for them to rub. Some of our members used a different (longer) back spacing on new wheels, then ended up with your problem.

I'm glad you are removing (replacing) your oil pan because it can reveal a long-standing problem with these cars. In the day everyone used non-detergent oil. Then they switched to detergent oil which tends to break up clots of dirt and plug the oil pickup screen. Many of our members underwent a major overhaul because the engine was oil-starved from this condition.

Clean the bottom of your engine and at the same time, pull your valve covers off and clean the tops of your heads. Any debris should fall down. Then replace the oil pan and rocker covers. - Dave

[Tbird1044]

Pat:
Does your car have stock rims and 215 X 14 tires? There was just a recent post of how to check the offset. I had a similar problem, but I went to a larger rim and wider tire. My problem was self inflicted. Thought it would be a simple fix to add a spacer, but it took a long time to find a new wheel stud that would work with the spacer.
Nyles

[Patreer]

Thanks a lot Dave.

I will check this for sure.
I can't wait to be able to enjoy my car.

I'm being hit hard with quite some problems now.
Once this one is fixed, I have to take care of the shifting problem. Car shifted in reverse by itself a few days ago when I started it.
I was very lucky that no one was behind.

I'm ordering the detent plate, collar and lever to fix this problem.

Thanks for your answer.
And have yourself à great Day!

Pat

[Patreer]

Hi Nyles

Thanks for your answer.
My tires are the same I had before the parts change: 225/70R14.

Could it be that the suspension was so tired, former owner had some 225 installed with no problem, and now that it fixed these tires are actually too wide now?

I must say I did actually not think of that but it could very well be the problem.

Do you know what would be the equivalent to what was originally on the car when new? 215?

Pat

PS: Man I love this forum, you guys are so quick and nice!

I feel less isolated with my problems (this is my first classic car ever...I have been waiting for 25 years to buy one)

[jopizz]

Pat,

You should have no trouble running 225/70/14 tires. I've had them on squarebirds before and I'm sure some of our members are using that size. If they didn't rub before there's no reason they should rub now. Can you take some pictures of your upper control arms and how they were installed and where they are rubbing on the tires. You can email them to me at jopizz@verizon.net and I will post them.

I'm glad to see that you got a new detent plate and shifter. That should take care of the slipping out of Park problem.

John

[jopizz]

Pat sent me some pictures of his upper control arm and ball joint. Something about the ball joint doesn't look right to me. It looks like it sticks out way too far. Maybe someone else can tell us what they think.

John

[jopizz]

Here's a picture of a factory ball joint. As you can see it should not extend past the end of the control arm. Also it looks much thinner than the one you have.

John

[Tbird1044]

I had the same problem with my 225 X 15's that I installed on chrome spoke rims. I measured the offset against the originals and it was the same. I had no problem with the stock rims and 215's. I ended up installing a 5/16" spacer and did grind the flange for the ball joint where it was equal to the A arm. All good now, even if it is a little tighter than I would like.
Here is a good page from the Coker site with tire dimensions:

http://www.hobbycar.com/Measure111505.pdf

http://www.widewhitetires.com/CrossReference.html

http://www.widewhitetires.com/american-classic-wide-whitewall-tires.html

Nyles

[simplyconnected]

Pat sent me some pictures of his upper control arm and ball joint...

John, can you post the other pictures as well?

I agree, this joint looks nothing like it should. Where did it come from and what brand is it?

Remove the tire, clean the area so we can see what's really happening and take a few more pictures from different angles.

I realize that my last post may be ambiguous. I meant the faulty installation job was caused because the ball joint was mounted from the bottom side of the "A" arm when it should have been mounted from the top.

I'd like to know how much bearing slop there is on the spindle. - Dave

[Patreer]

Here are the Ball joints in question that I ordered from the Thunderbird Headquarters

http://www.tbirdhq.com/pc_product_detail.asp?key=328304FC64BC49608A7EB27ECD2B04FD

[jopizz]

Here are some other pictures he sent me. It's definitely rubbing on the ball joint.

[Randy]

my ball joint picture factory original, if this help's

.........

[jopizz]

Pat,

If possible can you clean off the top of the ball joint and take a picture from the top looking down at the ball joint. Something is way off.

John

[Patreer]

Hi John,

Yes I will have the car out of my garage tomorrow morning, clean and take more pics from above the ball joint.

Is this the correct one that I ordered?
they do specify it is for 58-60 Thunderbirds

http://www.tbirdhq.com/pc_product_detail.asp?key=328304FC64BC49608A7EB27ECD2B04FD

Thanks

Pat