Need advice on getting this old bird started up.

[dgs]

Wow, you're having fun aren't you? I rebuilt my brake system with a kit from Kanter. Rebuilt the M/C, rebuilt all 4 W/Cs, new hoses, new shoes and new springs & hardware. Complete kit was ~$200, but that was probably 8 years ago. I had one W/C that was scored so even after the rebuild it leaked. Found a new one at Advance or Autozone for like $13.

Brakes aren't too hard, but with drums you kinda feel like you need a third hand. Keep at it, you'll figure it out. I always leave one side together while I do the other, then you have a reference if you need it. Discs are even easier, especially modern cars. I changed the rear discs on my Mazda3 in an hour or two, could do the fronts on my Odyssey in an hour flat. Once you do 'em you'll kick yourself for paying anyone to do it in the past.

I also used Kanter's front suspension rebuild kit which also worked great.

Good luck and have fun!

[simplyconnected]

Doug, I am so glad you chimed in because it kinda goes along with the advice I've given Marcelo. I'm not one to throw parts or money at a problem unless it really needs it.

I tried to impress Marcelo with the fact that restorations cost LOTS of money. If you can save a buck here or there, that means you will have it for something else.

I talked him into doing his own brake job just so he knows how to do one. He got cold feet on the M/C and bought a new one because he read horror stories on the 'net from someone who unsuccessfully rebuilt his. Instead of buying a Rock Auto rebuild kit (~$12) he spent $60 for a new OEM. He also plans on retrofitting power disk brakes down the road (so there goes the new M/C).

I agree with using DOT-3. Nothing works better, or costs less, and he IS changing his entire system. At ~$12/ea., I directed Marcelo to buy all new wheel cylinders just because the original bleeder valves are old and probably stuck (or broken off). He can rebuild the old ones and keep them as spares. So far his costs:
$60 -M/C
$62 -25' Cunifer brake line and brass nuts
$3.50 -Grease Seals
$48 -Wheel cylinders
$173.50 New Shoes and Drums are TBD when he takes the old off. Rock Auto wants $30/ea for front drums and about $20/ea for front or rear shoes.

[NYsquarebird58]

Not good...

It’s pretty bad… I can’t even find a suitable spot for a jack stands on the front half of the car. The rear frame rails on either side of the gas tank seem OK, but given the condition of the rest of the underbody I’m just not sure. I spent the last two weeks planning, researching and sourcing parts…discovering this is a real blow.

I went to pull out the old battery and the battery tray practically disintegrated in my hands. Here’s what it looks like underneath where the battery tray once was.


Notice the rust hole where the cross member meets the frame rail


The underside of the cross member is gone and that sway bar is just hanging


View from the front








Driver side rear frame rail


Driver side rear wheel well


Passenger side rear frame rail




Driver side floor board looking towards the front of the car


Driver side wheel well


Passenger side wheel well




I knew the car needed floor boards, at least one rocker panel and trunk repair, but this is structural. Even if I had the money to throw at this, I don’t think it would make sense too.

I’m distraught over this. I really wanted to bring this old bird back to life, but I’m just not sure if that’s possible. What say you? Is she still worth saving?

[davidmij]

Wow, and it looked like such a great car. I can't speak to whether it's worth doing or not, have to let one of the more knowledgable guys say.
And I just took pictures of my air cleaner, chrome pieces, and speaker cover for you too. You probably won't be interested in those anymore.
I know where there's a Bird sitting in a field in NM if you want a parts car, or vice versa. See pix I took here.

https://picasaweb.google.com/101492851059660555641/LostBird?authkey=Gv1sRgCK6DyoHpu5DvyQE

Really don't know what the chassis is like on it either though.

-Dave J

[DKheld]

Ugh - that's some pretty significant rust. That cross member where the suspension bolts worries me. Another fellow on the forum has done a top notch job repairing one by making and welding in his own sheet steel but he has - I think - every metal tool known to man.

Carl Heller (partsetal) is over in Orwigsburg Pa. about 3 hours away from you - guess it is possible he would have a good front lower clip but that would mean some serious cutting and welding.

Hate to hear it too. Good luck on your decision - it will be a tough one.

Eric

[NYsquarebird58]

Ugh - that's some pretty significant rust. That cross member where the suspension bolts worries me. Another fellow on the forum has done a top notch job repairing one by making and welding in his own sheet steel but he has - I think - every metal tool known to man.

Carl Heller (partsetal) is over in Orwigsburg Pa. about 3 hours away from you - guess it is possible he would have a good front lower clip but that would mean some serious cutting and welding.

Hate to hear it too. Good luck on your decision - it will be a tough one.

Eric

That's good to know. Maybe he has a solid shell that I can transfer the drivetrain in too.

[simplyconnected]

I'm sorry things turned out this bad and I promptly returned all of your PayPal money.

Unless you are good with steel fabrication and welding, this project is not for a novice restorer. The pictures bear witness to this fact: Regardless of how you meticulously disect and talk about a job from behind a computer, nothing takes the place of physically looking (before you buy).

We live in the Rust Belt. Our cars usually last about 10-20 years before they go back to the earth. With a Northern car this age, I'm amazed this one lasted 50 years after sitting out for 17. Please, next time, carefully inspect your next car in daylight before you buy. Get on the ground, look, and feel, underneath. - Dave

[DKheld]

These cars are rust prone in that that area - even my southern car that was bought new here and has always been in the south has a few little rust spots on that cross member that is mostly missing on your car. They just were not rust proofed very well.

A transplant to a good body might be a good idea.

Hope it all works out for the best....

Eric

[NYsquarebird58]

I'm sorry things turned out this bad and I promptly returned all of your PayPal money.

Unless you are good with steel fabrication and welding, this project is not for a novice restorer. The pictures bear witness to this fact: Regardless of how you meticulously disect and talk about a job from behind a computer, nothing takes the place of physically looking (before you buy).

We live in the Rust Belt. Our cars usually last about 10-20 years before they go back to the earth. With a Northern car this age, I'm amazed this one lasted 50 years after sitting out for 17. Please, next time, carefully inspect your next car in daylight before you buy. Get on the ground, look, and feel, underneath. - Dave

Dave, thank you. I'll use this experience as a lesson learned. You've been a tremendous help and I truly appreciate all the advise.

You guys have all been awesome and I do plan on sticking around. I've learned allot the past two weeks and got to interact with some really cool people.

Now I have to focus on selling the T-Bird and recouping as much money as I can for the parts I've bought. I'm also keeping my eyes peeled for another squarebird project.

[Anders]

Texas seems to be a good place to buy old cars. Mine have no rust at all. And it must have been in a barn or outside for quite some time in it´s life, as I ( use to , before I removed them ) have like 20-30 small clay nests (?). Well, that said, I do have little on one of the inner fenders in one of the wheel arches, but that´s where everything from the front tire is hitting. I need to change a piece of 2 X 4 inch. On one side only

[lawyercalif]

Sorry to see your car had that much rust. I just completed rust repair on a convertible that I bought on EBay from Michigan. I can tell you first hand if I had not been able to do some bartering with the body shop owner mine would not have gotten fixed either. My $7500 dollar bargain is now a beautiful Bird but I'm in it over $20,000.00. The SquareBird is a great car but if it is from the East or the Midwest it may very well have structural damage from rust.

[keith]

Now I have to focus on selling the T-Bird and recouping as much money as I can for the parts I've bought. I'm also keeping my eyes peeled for another squarebird project.

STOP!!! Don't sell this car if your going to buy another Squarebird. You said you paid $675.00 for it. You have the best parts store in your backyard. Unless you buy a turnkey car you are going to buy another project. It is going to need something off of your current car or at least a pattern, visual of a missing part, trading material for other parts,etc,etc.

I know you are overwhelmed with what you have found, but you didn't get hurt other than your dream went from color to black and white. You learned that you need to assume the worse. But for your purchase price you did good.

I'm not going to tell you that you can fix it. But I sure as heck would look for another parts car and join a local car club,meet some hobbiest that can help you with labor or point you to someone who would be willing to help you out.

I'm a serious hobbiest and I enjoy helping someone who wants to restore,fix, or customize/hotrod a car. With a little notice I can always make a opening in my shop for a fellow club member, friend , newly made friend to work or help them work on their car on a weekend or a couple of evenings. Some leave money,some don't,some help me when I need a extra hand, conversation, advise or barter for a part I need. I've been burnt, but I learned that just happens sometimes.


Good luck in whatever you decide.

[simplyconnected]

Thank You for the kudos, Marcelo. Hindsight is always 20/20 but nobody knows it all. Every one of us started out the same, knowing **** little or nothing, and hopefully we learned from our mistakes and experiences.

If you are a restorer, most of this work (90%) is grunt preparation work, like cleaning and de-rusting parts. Restoring requires you use all your senses WITH the perception of things you don't see, don't hear, and don't smell. Manuals help understand originality but you gotta put your hands on it, open your eyes, and use your imagination. Then, put your skills to work. Start by working with someone experienced.

I bought my '55 from a 'decent man' in the cotton fields of southern Missouri who kept saying his car was "solid" and it was bone original. I went in with the determination of totally stripping it down to a bare shell and building it up. I have some skills, which brings my cost down considerably. He lied. (Let me put on my 'Surprised' face...) I found evidence of overspray and patch panels.

This was my #1 crossmember (click on the picture):

(Look at pictures 16-22) No matter to me, I just made a new one and welded it back in place. Now, it's better than new. I later found out this is a common problem with this model and have found replacements for $400 on eBay. Mine cost ~$10.

Lawyercalif did things right, if you're not skilled in some areas, hire a good tradesman to do it right the first time to save you money. OR, buy the car already restored. Twenty grand is about half of what most folks pay. In today's economy, you can find already restored Squarebirds for about $20k.

Your Thunderbird would be perfect for someone who fabricates metal IF he can get it cheap and has time. We have been following KEITH's posts for some time. He cuts out rotted steel and replaces it with new. Check out his thread before all the pictures are gone. (Some of the early pics are taken down, already.)

I wish you well in your next restoration. - Dave

[davidmij]

I agree with Keith, that's why I mentioned the car I supplied pix of. The glass, dash parts, seats, bumpers, etc on your car are worth $675 easily! You're still good to go, just take a little time and find another T-bird to build. Heck, even the 14 inch aluminum wheels have value to someone. Can't find those easily.
If you are interested I can find out the name of the little general store and it's number where the t-bird sits. He may sell it for next to nothing. It's in Carson City, very near Taos and Santa Fe.
-Dave J

[keith]

We have been following KEITH's posts for some time. He cuts out rotted steel and replaces it with new. Check out his thread before all the pictures are gone. (Some of the early pics are taken down, already.)

I wish you well in your next restoration. - Dave

I'm sorry about the missing pictures. I'm not very good with the computer thing. I didn't remove the pictures on purpose, I was trying to put them in order and I didn't realize that PhotoBucket would lose it's link to the post. I need to figure out how to restore the missing pictures in the post. the thread looks bad without pictures. I apologize for that.

Keith