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  #11  
Old 03-31-2012, 09:01 PM
davidmij davidmij is offline
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Well it's too late for the head gaskets, but I haven't done much else on the top.
Here's the kit I bought, it was cheaper than buying pieces.
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=123917
(I know, cheap usually isn't the smart way to go)

Should I not use these intake gaskets? Might they have steel cores? There's not evident steel showing.

The kit has two sets of steel gaskets but they are obviously for two different size exhaust ports that are possible with an FE engine.


A new question. Am I supposed to cut all the head gasket edges off that stick out into the valve valley? And does the valley pan just lay in the intake?

thx, DAve J
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  #12  
Old 04-01-2012, 01:41 AM
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simplyconnected simplyconnected is offline
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The issue is not with the head gaskets. Read my post carefully.
You purchased the FS8554PT gasket set.
I purchased the Fel-Pro KS 2307 gasket set.

Rock Auto sells both. Mine has metal sandwiched intake gaskets. They are both marked, 90145 (both sides the same).

I don't know what intake gaskets are in your set. If they are Print-O-Seal, don't use them. Instead, buy two intake gaskets that have a metal core.

You should not cut any of the gaskets, as the 'squared' end should be visible from the front. The only open water holes are the ones toward the rear.

Many builders do not use the front and rear 'rail' gaskets. They leave them off and use silicone. This technique works on many Ford engines. If you were going with aluminum heads, I would insist you use new head bolts with hardened washers. Iron to iron poses no problem assembling like stock. - Dave

Yes, the valley pan just sits there with no bolts. - Dave
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  #13  
Old 04-01-2012, 06:45 AM
KULTULZ
 
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As mentioned, you want a composition gasket(s) on the intake. These will allow expansion/contraction during engine operation.

Throw the valley end gaskets in the trash barrel. Use RTV instead. Follow FEL-PRO (good) recommendations for sealant usages.

- Fastener Technology Overview - ARP

- Permatex® Ultra Black® Maximum Oil Resistance RTV Silicone Gasket Maker -

Copper spray sealant is now used mostly for steel shim head gaskets. It is older technology.
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  #14  
Old 04-01-2012, 11:48 AM
gaffney1951 gaffney1951 is offline
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Default Intake gaskets ...

As said, I would avoid the print-o-leaks, but I would have to disagree that a metal reinforced gasket is necessary. Either Mr gasket or Victor Riens gaskets have worked well for me in many applications on FE's, not that there is anything wrong with metal gaskets. It is important to match port size, and it may be necessary to do some trimming on the head or intake gaskets where they meet to get the proper fit and to insure that there is no interference with the intake seating fully. Got these part #'s from a search on the FE forum.(you can check your port sizes against these measurements)
#202A fits 427MR heads (1.34" x 2.06") and Edelbrock perfectly, and #206 fits 428CJ and similar (1.34" x 2.34").
If you spray both sides of the gaskets liberally with 'Red Death' (Permatex red gasket cement), they actually swell-up and get thicker. When torqued into place, the manifold then imprints nicely into the material, assuring a leak-proof installation.
Good luck with your task. Mike

Last edited by gaffney1951 : 04-01-2012 at 11:52 AM.
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  #15  
Old 04-01-2012, 12:21 PM
davidmij davidmij is offline
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Thx everyone,
The ones I have say, "Felpro 90145". Here they are on line. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FEL-MS90145/
They appear to have metal sandwiched between the fiber blue surface. They are heavy like metal would be.
Do you think these are OK?
This motor will only see about 300 miles a year over the next 5 years. After that I will be retired and have the time (and money) to do a complete and thorough rebuild.

I think someone said the blue RTV is not correct for the intake? I think I'm supposed to use the gray, which is high temp?

-Dave J
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  #16  
Old 04-01-2012, 05:06 PM
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RTV was developed by GE. I don't know if Permatex or Motorcraft actually makes it but the point is, regardless of color, you need RTV that is oil (and gasoline) resistant. Regular Silicone Sealant II bloats when exposed to oil, and causes a mess. I know from using it on a fuel tank sending unit. Secondly, only use what is necessary because the excess goes somewhere. You don't want pieces of RTV in your oil (which can plug small oil holes) or in your coolant (which can plug small coolant holes). All silicone is heat AND cold resistant, so it won't go away.

Mike Gaffney is THE MAN when it comes to high performance FE engines. He is experienced and offers sound advice. Intake manifold gaskets are notorious for leaks in FE's and a gasket either seals (forever) or it leaks (almost immediately). The metal core inside is designed to maintain gasket rigdity and to prevent it from creeping. Here's an example of what you DON'T want:

This gasket leaked coolant immediately. Even though the edges were trimmed beautifully, the flimsy Print-O-Seal partition moved a lot.

Your new gasket won't do this if installed correctly.

EDIT: Also notice someone used far too much BLUE RTV around the water hole. It's all balled-up and in pieces. All you need is a very THIN layer. - Dave
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Last edited by simplyconnected : 04-01-2012 at 05:10 PM.
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  #17  
Old 04-01-2012, 05:31 PM
KULTULZ
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmij View Post

I think someone said the blue RTV is not correct for the intake? I think I'm supposed to use the gray, which is high temp?

-Dave J
Blue Glue - http://www.permatex.com/products/Aut...sket_Maker.htm - is not meant to be used internally in an engine.

For those purposes, either BLACK RTV or a newer product, GRAY RTV.

PERMATEX is a vendor for FORD CHEMICALS.

The gaskets you have will work fine on a mild street engine. I always used PERMATEX #2 around coolant ports. No adhesive should be necessary for the intake gaskets. The instruction sheet that came with the gasket set will tell you how to go about it.

IF using BLACK RTV on the end valleys, you might want to use a product such as this - http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_...Supplement.pdf - as the OEM intake gaskets are held steady by the cork (or rubber) valley end gaskets. As mentioned, these are easy to screw up. Also make sure your PCV System is functional as the increased engine internal pressure will usually blow the rear one out first.
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  #18  
Old 04-01-2012, 05:34 PM
KULTULZ
 
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BTW or PS-

More concern for the gasket type is needed for an aluminum intake and/or heads. OEM cast iron does not present those problems usually.
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  #19  
Old 04-01-2012, 10:57 PM
davidmij davidmij is offline
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Thx all,
I can see from your picture Dave that gaskets without metal would be prone to drift - and on the inside like that picture shows, you would never even know it during the assembly.

Thanks for the info Gary. The blue permatex is what I used on the block plugs. I'll get a tube of the gray for the water seals on the intake and leave the rest of the surfaces clean.

For the cross over exhaust ports (that I'm going to block off) I cut the flat bottom out of a coffee can and made small pieces to fit inside the gasket. Can I use the gray RTV to stick those in place on the intake manifold before assembly? I would let it cure so they won't shift. I can't imagine it would be good to sandwich those because that would change the thickness of the gasket slightly at that spot only. Is that correct?

regards, Dave J
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  #20  
Old 04-02-2012, 05:54 AM
KULTULZ
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmij View Post

For the cross over exhaust ports (that I'm going to block off) I cut the flat bottom out of a coffee can and made small pieces to fit inside the gasket. Can I use the gray RTV to stick those in place on the intake manifold before assembly? I would let it cure so they won't shift. I can't imagine it would be good to sandwich those because that would change the thickness of the gasket slightly at that spot only. Is that correct?

regards, Dave J
While there are specialty gaskets offered without the heat riser passage, what you want to do is OK. I would use- http://www.permatex.com/products/Aut...one_Gasket.htm -to seal the plate as the heated exhaust will want to burn through that immediate area.

You must also consider if you are doing this to also either remove or defeat the heat riser valve in the exhaust inlet. If still operational and while closed, there will be an exhaust pressure buildup on one exhaust pipe side.

For a normally driven street car, a functional heat riser is desired as it helps in cold ambient air conditions to improve drive-ability
.

The block off plates should be made from this galvanized stock cut slightly oversize in relation to the actual crossover runner size as you don't want them to blow out and be sucked into the engine itself.

Last edited by KULTULZ : 04-02-2012 at 06:01 AM.
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