For those who have seen the Welcoming comments in that Forum for Mark Mundorff ~ AVANCIER THUNDERBIRD, you will see that he has owned a '59 Tbird set up for racing. He has owned it since 1967 and has been trying to find out it's history prior to him purchasing it. Holman-Moody says it is not one of their cars that they received from the factory. Their website says they received 10 cars, but other accounts has it at 11 to 13. Mark and I have been having an email conversation back and forth and I asked for permission to post his comments in hopes that someone out there might know something about this Tbird so that we can nail down more of it's history. Here is what he has to say.
"My name is Mark Mundorff and I am one of the 20 or so charter members of the original VTCA out of Tulsa back in about 1972. Don Brix was the key person at that time if my memory serves me half way correctly. In the late 70’s, I sent a full set of all the original service bulletins from a local Ford dealer to Larry Seyfarth in Detroit. I don’t know what might have happened to all the stuff I sent to him like that? (My note: If anyone knows Larry Seyfarth, I would like to get in contact with him regarding the location of that complete set of original service documents!)
I just recently “rediscovered” your web site and I just recently rejoined the other larger club out of Wash state. I do think there is a very legitimate need and desire for a group that you are representing here for just the 58-60 T-birds. By the way, I have had mine since 1967. And maybe someone in this group will have some comments or insight into my mystery bird. No one else has in the many years and efforts I have made trying to discover where it came from and why.
In a nutshell, mine is a 59 T-bird…….430 engine……3 speed overdrive, no options at all on the car. 2 shocks per wheel, 15 inch tires, custom functional side vents into the engine compartment and 1 in the hood , radiused wheel wells in back, traction rods welded in on the rear axle, top speed 160+ mph with ease and stability. Bought in Omaha in 1967 with 30,000 miles on it. VIN Plate says had automatic trans and accessories. Was factory black then gold then red with white top as it is now. There is no sign of ever having had an automatic transmission. (My Note: So it left the factory with a VIN # and Data Plate showing what it was when it left there. That seems to indicate it was not one of the H&M Race Cars. I do not know if they left the factory with VIN #'s and Data Plates, but I make the assumption that they did, in order to control car production and status. I tried to contact someone at H&M but they are closed.)
The driver’s side sun visor has the word “AVANCIER” nicely hand lettered on it. From what I have been told, that is old world French meaning “ahead of its time” French language experts say most French would never use that word or know what it meant. The hood vent is on the passenger’s side and is professionally molded into the hood metal with a shallow trough running back to the windshield for no reason what so ever!
I have told and asked many people if they have any ideas……..speculation but nothing concrete. Omaha is where the 59 T-bird came from that almost won the 1st Daytona race. Rumor is that other T-birds came to Omaha without general knowledge of most people. Speculation is this was one Ford put together for racing from the factory itself. Holman and Moody says it is not one of theirs. When we bought it, we were told the sister to it was wrecked in a race. We were told there had been 11-13 of them originally. Holman and Moody said they only built 11 of them? (Note that the Holman-Moody website says 10!)
By mid racing season, one problem the T-birds had was uplift at the speeds they were capable of going. Ford was working on how to keep them down………..but very very little is ever written about that. This version, has no problems at 160 mph staying stable and on the ground, because of the very functional side vents very professionally cut in and directed to the engine compartment. Was it a Ford built test car for race development that got shipped to the car builders in Omaha? No one is left that seems to have any knowledge back then. Is it doomed to slip into history and forgotten? It is an absolutely beautifully built and finished car, every bit a show car that goes from 0-160+ from grocery store parking lot to race track with the loaf of bread and bottle of milk in the back seat.
Any thoughts or comments are welcome.
Mark Mundorff
Mapes Industries
Lincoln NE
68514 "
mmundorff@mapes.com
Since then comes additional comments from Mark.
"Thanks for getting back to me so quickly. You can use my name and address and email if you would like. That is fine with me. My guess is no one will know about it after trying for the last 10 yrs and the trail is growing colder all the time. One thing that is a really curious circumstantial item of interest but unverifiable is this. When we bought the car, I was 15. We farmed in central Nebr, about 150 miles west of Omaha. Dad, who is now 93, is the one who recalls some of the comments made about the car. I just wanted a T-Bird. We knew nothing of T-Birds or racing given our background. He is the one who was told the 2nd car like it was wrecked in a race. But the oddest recollection he has is insightful since it is totally meaningless! They mentioned to him that at one time, they did know if they were going to take the top off and run as a convertible. That was an irrational comment to him since it made absolutely no sense! (My Note: Ford Tbirds were run with the tops off, known as "Zipper Tops". I will post some pix of these '59 Tbirds.)
As far as the service bulletins, they were all the originals, all in exact chronological order, all in excellent shape, all in neat boxes saved by our little town Ford dealer who went out of business in about 1974. All were sent without making copies (you can imagine copying 500+ pages in 1974) and all were acknowledged recvd and thanks extended to me by Larry. At that time I had been and was an active member of the original VTCA and have the original paper listing those first 20 or so members. But I do NOT have copies of the service bulletins. I assumed they would be in good hands? Wasn’t that kind of thing achieved and stored for future use? Larry was President of the club for at least several years and it was he that I sent the VIN number to and it was he who told me the car did not exist in Ford’s records.
As far as contributing to the Forum, I would be more than happy to. The effort and information available here is invaluable. I will send you a check. (My Note: To become a Paid Member) As far as Lincolns, both of my T-Birds have the 430 Lincoln engine, so the connection is there for sure. For the purist, neither are stock in details, but both used to stop traffic and turns heads when they were running. I took the 60 sunroof on my honeymoon back in 84 and it was gorgeous !! I still have the car but she is gone to follow her dreams.
I am very happy to have rediscovered your group and plan to stay involved and support it. But by all means, use my name and I will try to send you a picture soon.
Take care and Happy New Year.
Mark Mundorff"
mmundorff@mapes.com
I have asked Mark to send a number of pictures, showing the engine well, the modifications made to the body, etc. and the VIN # and Data Plate information. Now, IF ANYONE knows anything further about this Tbird, Mark and the Forum would love to know about it. Please post here.
Here are several pictures. One of the famous Petty-Beauchamp race with Beauchamp in his '59 Tbird. One of a Holman-Moody '59 race car restored as it was in 1959 and one of a "Zipper Top" Tbird. I will post the other pix that Mark just sent me in another post! You will see about 8 pix of what it looks like today, including the VIN # and Data Plate information. The VIN # appears to be J9YH163343 but it is a bit hard to read that one "3". That VIN # is NOT in the Tbird Registry.
"My name is Mark Mundorff and I am one of the 20 or so charter members of the original VTCA out of Tulsa back in about 1972. Don Brix was the key person at that time if my memory serves me half way correctly. In the late 70’s, I sent a full set of all the original service bulletins from a local Ford dealer to Larry Seyfarth in Detroit. I don’t know what might have happened to all the stuff I sent to him like that? (My note: If anyone knows Larry Seyfarth, I would like to get in contact with him regarding the location of that complete set of original service documents!)
I just recently “rediscovered” your web site and I just recently rejoined the other larger club out of Wash state. I do think there is a very legitimate need and desire for a group that you are representing here for just the 58-60 T-birds. By the way, I have had mine since 1967. And maybe someone in this group will have some comments or insight into my mystery bird. No one else has in the many years and efforts I have made trying to discover where it came from and why.
In a nutshell, mine is a 59 T-bird…….430 engine……3 speed overdrive, no options at all on the car. 2 shocks per wheel, 15 inch tires, custom functional side vents into the engine compartment and 1 in the hood , radiused wheel wells in back, traction rods welded in on the rear axle, top speed 160+ mph with ease and stability. Bought in Omaha in 1967 with 30,000 miles on it. VIN Plate says had automatic trans and accessories. Was factory black then gold then red with white top as it is now. There is no sign of ever having had an automatic transmission. (My Note: So it left the factory with a VIN # and Data Plate showing what it was when it left there. That seems to indicate it was not one of the H&M Race Cars. I do not know if they left the factory with VIN #'s and Data Plates, but I make the assumption that they did, in order to control car production and status. I tried to contact someone at H&M but they are closed.)
The driver’s side sun visor has the word “AVANCIER” nicely hand lettered on it. From what I have been told, that is old world French meaning “ahead of its time” French language experts say most French would never use that word or know what it meant. The hood vent is on the passenger’s side and is professionally molded into the hood metal with a shallow trough running back to the windshield for no reason what so ever!
I have told and asked many people if they have any ideas……..speculation but nothing concrete. Omaha is where the 59 T-bird came from that almost won the 1st Daytona race. Rumor is that other T-birds came to Omaha without general knowledge of most people. Speculation is this was one Ford put together for racing from the factory itself. Holman and Moody says it is not one of theirs. When we bought it, we were told the sister to it was wrecked in a race. We were told there had been 11-13 of them originally. Holman and Moody said they only built 11 of them? (Note that the Holman-Moody website says 10!)
By mid racing season, one problem the T-birds had was uplift at the speeds they were capable of going. Ford was working on how to keep them down………..but very very little is ever written about that. This version, has no problems at 160 mph staying stable and on the ground, because of the very functional side vents very professionally cut in and directed to the engine compartment. Was it a Ford built test car for race development that got shipped to the car builders in Omaha? No one is left that seems to have any knowledge back then. Is it doomed to slip into history and forgotten? It is an absolutely beautifully built and finished car, every bit a show car that goes from 0-160+ from grocery store parking lot to race track with the loaf of bread and bottle of milk in the back seat.
Any thoughts or comments are welcome.
Mark Mundorff
Mapes Industries
Lincoln NE
68514 "
mmundorff@mapes.com
Since then comes additional comments from Mark.
"Thanks for getting back to me so quickly. You can use my name and address and email if you would like. That is fine with me. My guess is no one will know about it after trying for the last 10 yrs and the trail is growing colder all the time. One thing that is a really curious circumstantial item of interest but unverifiable is this. When we bought the car, I was 15. We farmed in central Nebr, about 150 miles west of Omaha. Dad, who is now 93, is the one who recalls some of the comments made about the car. I just wanted a T-Bird. We knew nothing of T-Birds or racing given our background. He is the one who was told the 2nd car like it was wrecked in a race. But the oddest recollection he has is insightful since it is totally meaningless! They mentioned to him that at one time, they did know if they were going to take the top off and run as a convertible. That was an irrational comment to him since it made absolutely no sense! (My Note: Ford Tbirds were run with the tops off, known as "Zipper Tops". I will post some pix of these '59 Tbirds.)
As far as the service bulletins, they were all the originals, all in exact chronological order, all in excellent shape, all in neat boxes saved by our little town Ford dealer who went out of business in about 1974. All were sent without making copies (you can imagine copying 500+ pages in 1974) and all were acknowledged recvd and thanks extended to me by Larry. At that time I had been and was an active member of the original VTCA and have the original paper listing those first 20 or so members. But I do NOT have copies of the service bulletins. I assumed they would be in good hands? Wasn’t that kind of thing achieved and stored for future use? Larry was President of the club for at least several years and it was he that I sent the VIN number to and it was he who told me the car did not exist in Ford’s records.
As far as contributing to the Forum, I would be more than happy to. The effort and information available here is invaluable. I will send you a check. (My Note: To become a Paid Member) As far as Lincolns, both of my T-Birds have the 430 Lincoln engine, so the connection is there for sure. For the purist, neither are stock in details, but both used to stop traffic and turns heads when they were running. I took the 60 sunroof on my honeymoon back in 84 and it was gorgeous !! I still have the car but she is gone to follow her dreams.
I am very happy to have rediscovered your group and plan to stay involved and support it. But by all means, use my name and I will try to send you a picture soon.
Take care and Happy New Year.
Mark Mundorff"
mmundorff@mapes.com
I have asked Mark to send a number of pictures, showing the engine well, the modifications made to the body, etc. and the VIN # and Data Plate information. Now, IF ANYONE knows anything further about this Tbird, Mark and the Forum would love to know about it. Please post here.
Here are several pictures. One of the famous Petty-Beauchamp race with Beauchamp in his '59 Tbird. One of a Holman-Moody '59 race car restored as it was in 1959 and one of a "Zipper Top" Tbird. I will post the other pix that Mark just sent me in another post! You will see about 8 pix of what it looks like today, including the VIN # and Data Plate information. The VIN # appears to be J9YH163343 but it is a bit hard to read that one "3". That VIN # is NOT in the Tbird Registry.
Comment