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  #161  
Old 08-09-2014, 09:54 PM
Yadkin Yadkin is offline
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See that blue hose against the fire wall in the second picture? That's a 5/16" plastic hose from an air brake system. The far end is in the trunk, connected to the purge end of a vapor recovery canister.
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  #162  
Old 08-09-2014, 10:04 PM
Yadkin Yadkin is offline
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Some small modifications here. The 1/8" white plastic vacuum connector (just above the T on the valve cover) comes from the base of the air cleaner. There it tees to two smaller hoses, and they connect to soft foam donuts that seal around the vent holes for both fuel bowls. I'll have a long rubber tube back the the vapor canister in the trunk. I'll also have the tank vent to that canister, and a third, larger collector at the top of the fill pipe.

The black wire chase (crosses the N on the valve cover) is from a temperature sensor located in the air cleaner, located ahead of the filter.
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  #163  
Old 08-09-2014, 10:22 PM
Yadkin Yadkin is offline
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Here we go, a picture before the OE shroud was put on. This is the best view of the March Performance serpentine system. I ordered my kit with an -08 suffix, meaning powder coat black instead of clear.

Oddly, the numerous spacers with the system are either clear coat aluminum or what we call here "superchrome", which is actually an aluminum pigment in the powder coat.

The alternator is high on the left similar to OE. The kit includes a billet fan and dress-up cone on the pulley. Below that is the AC compressor. It's a Sanden "peanut" style to achieve clearance from the passenger cylinder head, which of course is about 2" closer to the belt that the driver's side. Between those is the fixed idler.

On the right side, again near the OE position, is the power steering pump. Brad painted it with an industrial enamel. It's a Saginaw type off a early 70's Chevy with a 5/8" shaft and keyway. It's not nearly as nice as the Eaton that it replaces. The pulley wobbles a bit on the shaft, and according to March that is unavoidable on that type of shaft.

The belts are tightened with stainless steel heim joint couplings.
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  #164  
Old 08-09-2014, 10:44 PM
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Here's another shot of the nearly complete engine bay. On the lower center you can see my custom heat exchanger for the choke. I's a short length of soft copper tube wrapped 180 degrees around the header collector and fastened with a large stainless steel hose clamp. Cheap and effective.
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  #165  
Old 08-10-2014, 01:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yadkin View Post
...The fan turns freely with about 1/4" clearance to the radiator, but while cranking at 37 amps it deflects the shroud and sucks itself into the radiator and rubs slightly. The solution is simple though, I'll just tilt it back a bit and get closer to the engine.
Yeah, I had one like that. I thought I could 'get away' with a little vibration. Next thing I knew coolant was coming out the core, right at the site where it touched. The lesson learned was, NEVER let the fan or shroud touch the radiator. Also, those plastic mounting things people use through the cores are disaster waiting to happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yadkin View Post
...My son is making a controller for it that will read the voltage from the engine sender and turn on the fan to 25% at 185F. As the temperature rises higher the unit will increase fan speed incrementally using variable frequency, with a goal of maintaining 180F.
No, no, no... I wish I could speak with your son.

First of all, forget using #12 wire and go with #10AWG. #10 is good for 30amps continuous, you're pushing 37amps. Fuse it for at least 40amps. Starting current for motors is 400% of Full Load Amps until the shaft starts rotating, then current comes down. Fans can be on for quite a long time and the temps under your hood are extremely hot. This isn't like house wiring, this is extreme service. You have volatile chemicals with extreme heat under the hood. Buy wire with insulation spec's greater than 90-degree C. That's about 195 degrees F.

Cooling fans don't cool the engine. In fact they have NOTHING to do with the engine. Their sole purpose in life is to cool the radiator, and only when it's necessary. In our Michigan winters, my cooling fan rarely ever comes on but my engine is up to heat and the heater blasts hot air.

Do not confuse the temperature gauge sending unit for radiator temp. The thermostat stays closed until the engine comes up to heat. That doesn't mean the radiator is hot.

BTW, what happens if your coolant level is lower in your radiator? Liquid still gets sucked into the pump from the bottom, so the radiator does not usually operate completely full.

Alright I brought you around the barn, now let's nail this... The radiator needs its own temp sensor, mounted about in the middle of the radiator, not at the top. When the middle of your radiator gets hot enough, the temp sensor energizes the cooling fan (usually through a relay). When coolant sheds enough heat the fan shuts off.

Tell your boy he can run the fan at a reduced speed depending on RADIATOR temp, not engine temp. Some folks continue fan operation while the engine is off. I do not, and I think that's a recipe for danger. I want nothing draining my battery when the key is shut off. - Dave
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  #166  
Old 08-10-2014, 05:49 AM
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Y
Some folks continue fan operation while the engine is off. I do not, and I think that's a recipe for danger. I want nothing draining my battery when the key is shut off. - Dave

With you on that one Dave - motor ain't running so it's not creating anymore heat.

So why have the fan running?

And as Dave says, it drains your battery - particularly if the temperature activated switch malfunctions.
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  #167  
Old 08-10-2014, 09:58 AM
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We've been using this table for wire size here, based on the chassis column: http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

So if it was a 12v house, we'd be using at least a #6.

No big deal going to #10. Its only 3' or so to the relay box. The relay that we're using is a 5 pin (originally for the Focus fan) so it has the doohickey that absorbs voltage spikes.

Interesting that you'd use a temperature reading on the radiator. The aftermarket units that use a pin type sender through the cores has been discussed here and roundly disapproved of.
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  #168  
Old 08-10-2014, 10:39 AM
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Great looking project.
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  #169  
Old 08-10-2014, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yadkin View Post
We've been using this table for wire size here, based on the chassis column: http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

So if it was a 12v house, we'd be using at least a #6.

No big deal going to #10. Its only 3' or so to the relay box. The relay that we're using is a 5 pin (originally for the Focus fan) so it has the doohickey that absorbs voltage spikes.
Copper size, insulation type, ambient temperature, mutual induction from harnesses and raceways, wire separation, frequency, vibration, surrounding chemicals, length, etc., all play a role in choosing the correct wire for your application. I think we all agree that automotive wire size is too small, especially ground and start circuit wires. These big companies get bit in the butt all the time, never for having wire too large but too small.
As a minimum guide, you need wire that is:
•Rated for 12 volts, insulation operates at temperatures of 194F (90C), meets or exceeds S.A.E. specification J1128, Ford M1L56A and Chrysler MS 3450. I'm not fond of your chart at all, but we can all find charts that agree with whatever we want. I defer to the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) for automotive applications. The bottom line is, your wire must be adequate for the environment it lives in; the copper large enough to safely carry the current and insulation must be capable of shedding heat. It's much better to err on the side of caution (by kicking your wire size up) than to re-do because of catastrophe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yadkin View Post
Interesting that you'd use a temperature reading on the radiator. The aftermarket units that use a pin type sender through the cores has been discussed here and roundly disapproved of.
The only disapproval I know of is, placing the thermostat too high in the radiator. Otherwise, that is where it belongs. Like I said, my fan rarely ever comes on in winter, but my engine is a toasty 195F. Electric fans are much more efficient than mechanical fans because they operate separately, on an 'as needed' basis.
Flex-a-lite is a well-known, well-respected electric fan manufacturer. Here is a how-to video for installation. I agree with everything they do but I would put the thermostat a little lower just in case coolant runs low:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOQQD0LUHMY They also bring up an important point. Don't forget to wire your A/C directly to your relay so the fan turns on every time the A/C runs.

Edit: I was looking around Youtube and found a good video regarding electric fan installations from 4WD Mechanix Magazine: Griffin Electric Radiator Fans & Wiring for Jeep Cherokee:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmzHj2cwqIE
Don't ask me why I never thought of it but they use the petcock hole (all the way at the bottom of the radiator) for their temp sender. Brilliant. - Dave
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Last edited by simplyconnected : 08-11-2014 at 03:00 AM.
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  #170  
Old 09-04-2014, 01:59 AM
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My lifters are making noise. There was some contact to the "baldy" valve covers so I installed a thicker Edelbrock gasket. I also readjusted the valves using zero plus 1.25 turns instead of 3/4.

Still noisy. Sounds like lifters. Gets less noisy after warming up. Is this a break in issue? The engine still has not been run on the street. The car has only been moved around the shop and yard since the engine rebuild.
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