Need advice on getting this old bird started up.

[simplyconnected]

Huh? Someone mention my name?
Hey, since we're all paid members, did you see my money saving post regarding brake lines in the Members Only Forum? If not, go over there and check it out. - Dave

[NYsquarebird58]

Huh? Someone mention my name?
Hey, since we're all paid members, did you see my money saving post regarding brake lines in the Members Only Forum? If not, go over there and check it out. - Dave

I have to admit. I’ve never overhauled brakes before, but I’m getting excited about doing them on the Bird.


And thanks to Dave for talking me out of towing the bird to the mechanic and doing them myself. The money I’ll save there will be put to better use someplace else.

[NYsquarebird58]

I have a question regarding jacking. I want to get the T-Bird completely off the ground, but I want to do so in a safe way and in such a manner that I can leave the car safely on jack stands for an extended period of time. Typically on a frame-on car, I would jack up the car from the frame and place the jack stands on the frame just in front of the rear wheels and just behind the front wheels. Since this is a unibody car and my rocker panels are rusty, I don’t think it would be a good idea to support the car from these areas.

I was thinking that my jacking procedure would go something like this:

1.) Slide the jack underneath the rear differential and raise the car
2.) Place jack strands underneath the axle tubes and lower the car.
3.) Slide the jack underneath the front cross member and raise the car
4.) Place jack stands where???

[Guest]

There are pictures in the shop manual of were to place stands. I used the rear and a piece of 2 by 4 by 6 in front of the doors out at the edge. I got those big stands at harbor freight. Replaced all my brake lines with stainless steel. That's before Dave came up with this. Left there quiet awhile. Did every thing shoes springs exc. exc. exc. Stops like they did when new. Which ain't fantastic.

[simplyconnected]

Bill, your Grandma sure did have fine taste in cars.

Regarding lifting, Bill is on the money; always refer to the Shop Manual. Even though this is a unibody car, it still uses a sub-frame system in the front and in the rear. That's what the suspension hangs from.

Lift your car OFF the suspension and put your jack stands under the frame rails in front and in the rear. If you think your rockers are too badly rusted to support the sub-frames, I wouldn't drive it before installing good steel in those rockers.

It's important to let your suspension hang, while jack stands support solid frame members. Before gettin under ANY car, give the raised body a good shake. It should feel rock-solid.

Now, what's this very ugly rumor about a MK2? I was going to write, Toyo.. Toy... Never mind, it's too upsetting. - Dave

[tmjsong1aolcom]

Carby First

Based on my memory the carb on your bird has been replaced with a later model 4100. Look next to the foot by the dash pod. On the foot should be stamped a serie of 4 or 5 numbers and letters. If the foot is stamped then you definately do not have 58 carby. Look at the side of the fuel bowl in the same location. There might be 112 embossed in a circle. If not do you find any other series of numbers. Usually a 58 had a 6 digit series of numbers starting with a 5 as I remember.

The carb sits on top of 2 spacer plates from what I can tell. One looks like the original which a narrow black phenolic type spacer plate. The other one which has the breather tube from the rear of the engine running in to it. This breather tube spacer was not used on 58-60 birds. 58's did not use PCV valves or any other type of crancase ventilation except when you go down the road air is picked up thru the oil filler cap and tube a run thru the engine out the breather tube. Your tube has been cut off.
As these engines aged you would get oil funes comming out the breather tubes when idling and going slow.

I will plug the current version of the VTCI rules again as most of the info you are seeking has been documented in these pages. Please understand that these were written by diaesed tbird owners and we made mistakes and omissions.

Will add more as time allows.

Fuz
58's&64's
Sun Prairie, Wi.
tmjsong1@aol.com

[tmjsong1aolcom]

Engine Info

You have been pointed to the steel boss that sticks our from the engine next to the dip stick. This info is when and who built the engine and the last digit as I remember is the inspector ID.

As for the various parts of the engine itself, yes thaere are embossed ids in all the parts and casting dates. Intake is on top infront of the carb and usually obscurred but the carb. If a 58 intake which yours looks like it will be a 6 digit number beginning with a 5. The date code will behind the id and harder to see, Usually one has to remove the carb. Post info and most can decode.

Block is a bit more of a pain. Can be a 6 digit code but check and see. The date code is embossed under the fuel filter housing as the housing must be removed to see it easily.

Exhast manifolds same system but from under the bird should be visible as well as date code.

Heads should be between 2 and 3 spark plug on each side but the date codes are under the valve covers in the center just from the front lip.

Good luck. Post info and most can decode.

The engine color used for 58 is rather unique to the birds. It is called a Ford light blue and hard to find.

Valve covers for 58 had 2 varieties. One was a plain black one with nothing embossed or stamped into it. The later one was FORD as you have. Yours look ok but not sure if the ends were curved as yours appear to be.

Fuz
58's&64's
Sun Prairie, Wi
tmjsong1@aol.com

[NYsquarebird58]

Fuz, thank you for the information. Hopefully it will be warm enough this weekend for me to work on the Bird and I can get back to you with some numbers. I'm also planning on doing the dowel test that Dave mentioned to determine which crank I have and get a better idea of what engine I have.

[NYsquarebird58]

I’m ordering brake parts and I can’t seem to find a consensus on how many rubber brake hoses are on a 58’ Most of the catalogs list three (two up front and one for the rear)

I’ve read several threads on here where members have found there to be five rubber brake hoses (4 up front and one for the rear)
Many of the catalogs only list three rubber brakes hoses for the 58’

I checked Macs and they list the following:

Rear hose 15” (1 required)
Front hose -inner 17 ½” (2 required)
Front hose – inner 15” (2 required)
Front hose – outer 14” (2 required) – this one connects to the wheel cylinders

It looks like Mac’s offers two different lengths for the front inner hoses (15” and 17 ½”)

I’m wondering what the reason for this is?

When I get home tonight I’ll measure my inner hoses and report back

Here are some cell phone shots of my brake hoses. It doesn’t make sense to me how this is done. Why wouldn’t Ford just have run a longer hard line and only used two rubber hoses up front versus four?

Since many things on this car have changed over the years, I just wanted to confirm that my brake hose setup is factory and not a custom job. What do you guys think?

Driver’s side



Passenger’s side



If it's not too dark when I get home, I'll take better pics.

[Guest]

Hey Marcelo,
Everything I looked through there are two up front (one per wheel) and one for the rear! These rubber lines were used because of the movement of the front wheels and the movement of the rear-end! Looks like some of the early '58 Thunderbirds had 15" rubber hoses that when the car was jacked up they were short Later in '58 Ford changed them to 18"
Also if you have the old lines off I would check at NAPA and see if they can make them up for you!
Richard D. Hord

P.S. Just got off phone with Mac's, tech guy tells me there are two each front wheel (four total up front)! Let me see if I get this correct, one from steel line to frame mounting block and one from frame mounting block to brake cylinder :O

[YellowRose]

Need advice on getting this old bird started up.

Richard sent me this file to upload for him. This might help you, Marcelo. Here it is.

[GTE427]

Regardless of what the books show, the 58 Front wheels had two brake hoses per wheel. These hoses can't be found in any parts books, but they exist. Start follow pictures of 58's, you'll notice them.

If I recall your photos, you have two hose on your car, however someone improvised the inner hose as an original is nearly impossible to locate.

Pat Wilson sells the original style mystery hose. See the following thread:

http://www.squarebirds.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=8432&highlight=front+brake+hose

[simplyconnected]

...These hoses can't be found in any parts books, but they exist...

This may be so, but now we can run hard lines to eliminate one hose on each side. There is no real reason for any brake system to have more than one hose per front wheel. Use the existing bracket to connect the hose and hard line. Cunifer tubing bends and flares like butter. - Dave

[tbird430]

Stock 1958 Birds had a total of four (4) brake HOSES up front & one in the rear system.

[NYsquarebird58]

This may be so, but now we can run hard lines to eliminate one hose on each side. There is no real reason for any brake system to have more than one hose per front wheel. Use the existing bracket to connect the hose and hard line. Cunifer tubing bends and flares like butter. - Dave

Where do I get this tubing? I want to do some bending and flaring this weekend!