Forward in all gears, incl. Reverse

[V-John]

I finally had time to tackle my leaking shift shaft seal, so I jacked the front and rear of the car to do it with the tranny still in the car. I used 8 jackstands, as well as my ramps for the front for safety because I had the bottom of the car over a foot high. I wasn't sure how much angle the tranny was going to have to be to pull the shafts out, so I removed the cooling fan, unbolted the exhaust from the manifolds, loosened the motor mounts, removed the tranny mount bolts, and removed the driveshaft. I could only get one drain bolt out on the torque converter. The other was so tight that I couldn't even get vice grips to budge it while using PB Blaster. I had the hydraulic jack under the tail section of the tranny and had my wife lower it until I was able to pull the shafts out.

I took pics as I removed the different sections, but I didn't take clear enough shots of the actual shift shaft interior linkage parts. It seemed easy enough putting things back together, and I installed a new filter and pan gasket as well. Filled up the tranny with new fluid and ran the motor for some time to warm it up, adding more when it needed it. No leaks!

A few days ago I finally got it back down on the ground (had to replace a control valve to ram hose because of a pinhole leak right in the middle of the rubber). I had the car backed in the garage before all of this, so I rolled the car halfway out of the garage because of the smoke from sitting for a year and the grease/oil that was on the exhaust. Plus, if the tranny had issues, I could push her back in the garage.

With the wheels chocked and the engine warmed up, I tried all of the gears starting with Low. A little gas and I could feel the car want to move forward. D1, D2 worked. Neutral wanted to go forward, and so did Reverse. Aww, man! I worked the shifter in all the gears again and still the same. Park worked, at least.

I'm wondering if I had installed the outer metal tab wrong that is on the shift shaft (Red arrow). Here are a few pics I took.

Thanks

[jopizz]

You might want to check out Dave Dare's COM rebuild page in the TRL.

http://www.squarebirds.org/simplyconnected/projects/Cruise-O-Matic/

It has very detailed pictures.

Are you sure you got the fluid tubes seated correctly.

John

[V-John]

I had my laptop in the garage so I could use his page as reference, as well as using my service manual. I'm putting her back on the jackstands today and will re-check everything. If you think the tubes might not be seated well, I'll definitely look at those as well. Our Christmas parade is next Saturday and I'd love to have it lit up with lights for everyone to see.

Thanks

[V-John]

I got back underneath and took the pan off the tranny to see what could be the problem. It looks like that I didn't have the pin on the shifter bracket (manual lever) between the 2 'heads' on this pin (manual valve). I didn't see any photos of this in the TRL link or posts.

I had also used this link:

http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/TrannyShiftSelectorSeals.htm

#13 " Make sure the manual valve is engaged into the manual lever and that the kick-down lever arm (inside the case) is between the stop and the kick-down valve. This is very important when reinstalling the valve body. When you see it, it is pretty obvious how it goes together."

I wasn't Mr. Obvious that day, apparently

[jopizz]

I looked through all the manuals that I have and I could not find a photo of how that lever should go. It appears that you are correct though in that it should go between the two stops on the shaft. I was hoping that Dave would comment since he's worked on many more transmissions than I have.

John

[Frango100]

I didn´t see this tread before, otherwise could have been of some help probably. Indeed, the manual valve two outer rings should fit in between the pin from the shift lever.
But good to hear that you have it solved.

[V-John]

The latest update...

Last night, after correcting how the pins go for shifting, I put the pan back on. As she was running and warming up (still on jackstands all around), I kept adding more fluid to get it to start registering on the dipstrick. Sometimes, there would be some knocking in the bellhousing, but would go away as I kept adding more fluid. After the dipstick showed the proper level it, it quit knocking. It didn't do that the first time when I closed it up with the "shifting pins" (from the photos) incorrectly placed, and ran for about 20 minutes in the driveway.

Anyway, I shifted in all the gears several time as I added the fluid. Looking to the back, Reverse was working as the wheel would rotate opposite ways. After I dropped her back on the ground, I pulled forward and back several times to make sure Reverse was working now. And it was like it should.

I drove about 3 miles up to the local gas station to put some gas in it and drove home. We live on a short cul-de-sac that slopes downward. I wanted to back into the garage, so I was facing downhill to back uphill and into the driveway. I stuck it in Reverse and....nothing, except rolling downhill. I ran through the gears to make sure I had it in Reverse and it sounded like it was slipping. I ended up looping around the cul-de-sac and drove straight in. I then tried backing up and I would have to give it a lot of gas to go backwards as I could hear the tranny slipping.

I was pretty disappointed after all of that, but started thinking about before I even replaced the shift shaft seal. The car slowly started losing Reverse last year and I thought it was because of the leaks. It seems like when I added some more fluid it helped.

So, I'm wondering if maybe the bands need adjusting, or something more serious. There was no issue going down the road. It was actually a relief to FINALLY get the steering completed and with no leaks. It was just a quiet ride getting a lot of looks at the gas station and on the road.

Any ideas on why why Reverse is now slipping after driving it when it started out well before heading out? I'm hoping I don't have to drain and remove the pan again.

[jopizz]

Did you check the fluid once it warmed up. You should always check and refill the transmission when hot, not cold. It normally takes the torque converter time to completely fill once it's dry.

John

[simplyconnected]

John is right on the money. You did not say how many quarts of trans fluid you put in but it holds ~11 quarts.

Why so many? Because all those parts use the trans oil to spread HEAT. In normal operation the whole trans is submerged in fluid which is totally different from the engine that only holds a little at the bottom.

The fastest way to ruin a trans is by running it low on trans fluid. Heat quickly changes things.

Most places will tell you to smell the dip stick oil. A burnt smell is evidence that it's too late, that the friction materials (bands and fibers) have either glazed or are worn. Wipe the dipstick on a white paper towel. Is there debris in the fluid? If so, don't run it like that because your bearings are dependent on clean transmission fluid (or they won't last).

If your trans is a rebuild, it's dry and won't accept all the fluid at once. It takes several more additions as the pumps go to work filling the converter, your radiator's heat exchanger and all the nooks inside the trans. 11-quarts is no joke and it seems like there's no end when filling it. - Dave

[V-John]

Yes, I put in about that much oil into the transmission. Before I took it out it was reading full and the engine had reached regular operating temperature according to the gauge. It was idling for about 15 minutes. When I came back with my issue it was still reading full. No leaks were found, and all oil level checks were with the engine running.

It's not a rebuild, just a repair on the shift shaft seal.

[jopizz]

You can try adjusting the rear band. Page 6-13 in the shop manual shows how to do the adjustment from inside the car and a picture of the tool you will need.

John

[Deanj]

...
It's not a rebuild, just a repair on the shift shaft seal.

Would you explain the part and procedure for the shaft seal? I'd appreciate hearing how you did it. Photos would be nice, also.

Dean

[V-John]

Would you explain the part and procedure for the shaft seal? I'd appreciate hearing how you did it. Photos would be nice, also.

Dean

I basically did what's in the first post, while using the TRL links in subsequent posts. I ordered the shaft seal and a new oil pan gasket from Thunderbird HQ's.

[Deanj]

Thanks- I forgot your original post,

I suspected my seal leaks, but my leak seems more persistent when the transmission gets a topping off by the shop like when they replaced the lines to the heat exchanger.

I too drained the case and torque converter after the unit was rebuilt about 8,000 miles and 8 years prior. The screen came off and I had to ask myself how was it attached. The fluid looked pretty good, but I didn't know that going in.

Dean

[Frango100]

When looking at the pictures in the first post, there seemed to be quite some black sludge on the bottom of the pan. That would indicate a slipping clutch/band. Was there any burned smell to the original fluid?
In reverse, the rear clutch and rear band are pressurised. The rear clutch is also used for third gear. Did you experience any slippage when in third gear?
The rear band is also used in Lo position, not in first gear when in D1. Do you experience any slippage when in Lo?
I would check the adjustment of the rear band. If adjustment doesn't resolve the problem, you will have to measure the line pressure, to be sure that there is no internal leakage, which could be the reason for the slippage.