Dropped spindles

[stu454bb]

I have searched the threads with no luck. Is anyone running the Fatmmans drop spindles. I cant find it listed in their catalog. Is the brake setup easy to obtain and do they work well. I'm running 15'' Customline rims. Will they clear the calipers. Is a squarebird too low with a 3'' drop. If I get them I'll have to pay heaps for postage, so gotta make sure their worth it. Stu

[simplyconnected]

You are talking about using Mustang/Granada spindles. They work very well and drop about 2". Just about any 15" wheel will work; it's the 14" that you must be picky about. Only wheels made for disk brakes will work in the 14" (like Granada or Versailes wheels). Download and READ THIS PDF file, as it also applies to Squarebirds and Mustangs.


It is important to use a combination proportioning valve, as disk brakes require a lot more hydraulic pressure than shoe brakes. Buy a new one from Old Irish Dave. If you find the rear wheels are still locking up before the fronts, you can run with smaller diameter rear wheel cylinders.

Hope this helps. I've done two Fords; my '55 Customline and '59 Galaxie.

If you need or can't find proper brake line or fittings, let me know. - Dave

[stu454bb]

Thanks Dave, very interesting instructional site. Makes me wonder if our Aussie built falcons may have interchangeable spindles and rotors. I thought Fatman Fabrications was making drop spindles for square birds now. Think I'll check out local stuff first. What year model Mustang spindles will work, Stu

[simplyconnected]

What year model Mustang spindles will work, Stu

Stu, why not keep your Squarebird spindles? All the geometry is correct and you don't need to change any ball joints or tie rods.

Ray Clark, Howard Prout, myself, and others are using Scarebird brackets that bolt right on to your existing spindles. No machining, either.





I used the Granada setup in our '55 Customline and it works well, but I uses the Scarebird brackets in our '59 Galaxie (which has the identical spindles as your car). It works just like a modern disc brake car.

Another benefit of Scarebird brackets is, you can buy a Mustang rotor that uses your original bearings and seals, and the snouts are the same as your originals. Again, no machining, and all parts are 'over the counter'. The Scarebird setup uses S-10 calipers and pads. 14" disk brake wheels fit this setup, so you can use your original hubcaps. Any 15" wheel will also fit.

My local auto parts store carries five choices of pads for that caliper. I use the softest ones because they stop the fastest and never squeal. They also wear out faster but are kindest to the rotors. They change-out in about ten minutes and are inexpensive.

What a world of difference disk brakes make. No fading, no pulling to the side, they dry immediately if wet, and they stop every bit like a modern car. I will never go back to front shoe brakes. You're going to need seat belts if you do a high speed panic stop, especially for your passengers. - Dave

[stu454bb]

Thanks Dave, I think you have changed my mind. I'll contact Scarebird and see what he can do for me.I think I could get S-10 calipers locally and rotors would not be a problem. Stu

[YellowRose]

Dropped spindles

As I recall, those who have used Granada spindles can have a problem with their alignment. Using the set up that Howard and Dave and I are using, with our original Tbird spindles, there will be no problems with alignment I am told. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but that is what I remember reading.

[DKheld]

Stu,

I used the Granada spindles - did my conversion about 7 years ago before the scarebird brackets were available. It was a real pain to find someone to work with me on the alignment. Finally found a shop that had been in business since the 40's and they really knew the old cars. Went back a few times to tweak the settings and finally got it dialed in. Planned on going back the following week to get the specs so that I would have them for future reference. The shop went out of business so I never got the specs - now I'll have to start all over again.

If I ever have a failure of the system I have now I'll seriously consider putting my original spindles on with the scarebird brackets rather than trying to fix mine and find another alignment shop that won't say "we can set it by the book for that year car and that's about it". Must have gone to 5 shops that said that.

I measured my car before and after the installation of the Granada spindles and they may have lowered the car 1/2 to 3/4 inches - nothing like 2 inches. Be nice/interesting to find someone with a stock car and compare to mine now that the rebuilt suspension has had time to settle.

I used 14 inch 70's LTD wheels to clear the calipers and center stub on the disc. Probably only be able to find those at a swap meet these days - all the junk yards have turned them into Kia's (one wheel = 1 Kia...... heh heh).

Eric
registry 5347





If someone trys to sell you later model Tbird spindles they don't work - been there. The wheels stick way to far out in the wheel wells and you can't adjust out all the + camber. The blue line in the pic below shows how much further out the later Tbird spindles are at the top. You can also see from this pic that the Granada axle is not much higher on the spindle than the stock Tbird axle so it doesn't lower the car that much.

[stu454bb]

Great info and pics Eric. For those of you with the Scarebird kit, what is included in the kit.

[mattyel]

http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=dropnstop&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCYQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dropnstop.com%2F&ei=o8paT66iDIK4iAegx63zBw&usg=AFQjCNGbmUQe_vZxU58XV6QURP9_k2gbvQ

These guys do a complete front end disk break/2 1/2 inch drop spindle kit. I'm not sure on the size of the disk that comes with it but judging by the picture it looks like a "factory" style set up. I have just sent him an email asking what sizes he does them in as I am also looking for a drop-disk set up but I want at least 12" disks

[DKheld]

Pretty sure those are the characters that sold me my first "kit" that did not work using '77 Tbird spindles (or full size Ford spindles). They could have changed their kit in the past 7 or so years but PLEASE read the disc brake thread and ask them questions. Have them send pictures of COMPETED conversions, alignment specs, etc. See just how much they do know.

The kits for full size Fords do not work on the Tbird - the front end is completely different between the two styles of cars. And to show you how much they DON"T know they advertise that their dual master cyl will bolt right to your original firewall mount or booster - ask for pictures of that - bet their master cyl has 2 larger holes and the original mount is 4 smaller bolts. It might bolt to 2 of the 4 studs but you won't get me to ride in that car. All I can say is I hope you have good insurance and an even better lawyer.

You are welcome to believe what they tell you but I can say I have actually DONE a conversion. The Granada spindles did not drop the car 2 1/2 inches. Can't wait to see what they have to say.

Eric
registry 5347

These pictures were taken after the conversion.

[stu454bb]

I have found that Aussie Ford Falcon has very similar front spindles to Tbird, but ball joint stud size is smaller. So if I can find someone with tapered reams I might go down that track. I don't know if it will drop the car. Maybe a little. I can not find anyone yet with S10 Calipers, so maybe Scarebirds kit is not for me. Shipping is the killer. Stu

[Jimz Bird]

Here is something I ran across a while ago when I was at first considering the Granada Shuffle.

Mustang Steve has tapered adapters. I don't know if they will work or not if you can't get a machine shop to taper yours.

http://www.mustangsteve.com/tierodbushings.html

He also has stuff on using those spindles on Mustangs. Again, don't know if it works with your stuff down there.

http://www.mustangsteve.com/granadadiscs.html

I'm sure that Dave D ( simplyconnected ) or Bob C ( redstangbob ) will see this and comment to give you some good ideas along with Eric.

[simplyconnected]

Eric Taylor down there in sunny North Carolina has good reason for erring on the side of caution. He was one of the 'pioneers' who sacrificed his Squarebird to find out what would work. We owe a lot to these folks for laying the foundation for our more modern methods.

Eric says to read the 'Disk Brake Conversion' thread. I agree. Since that thread, Squarebirds.org has opened up to include the original Thunderbirds (or ClassicBirds), BulletBirds, etc.

There is no magic pill but some setups work nicely. BTW, when I hear that someone cannot find S-10 parts, I am floored. GM produced so many millions of S-10 and S-15, Cadillac, Pontiac, Olds, and Buick vehicles that all used the same brakes; there isn't a more common brake in existence. I don't know how many suppliers made these brakes, but it must be dozens, to keep up with 'aftermarket demand'. As I stated, my local parts store has FIVE different pads, from cheap to ceramic. Rockauto.com has seven pads; from 1977 Buick Electra to 1992 Pontiac Firebird and all the cars in between.

Ok, let's examine Ford spindles from the 'horse's mouth' Ford Cat:


Notice, from '54 thru '56, Ford shared the exact same spindles with Thunderbird. Why not a RH + LH? Because the same spindle was used for both but the SPINDLE ARM came in RH & LH, and the Arm bolted onto either spindles. Thunderbird carried this over through '57 (consistant with ClassicBirds).

In '57 - '59 Ford Cars, there is a change that Thunderbird follows in '58 - '60 (consistant with Squarebirds). What is this change? Spindle Arms are now integrated into the spindle forging and we have a LH & RH spindles. Both, Ford Cars and Thunderbirds, share the exact same part numbers.

Because Ford Cars and Thunderbird used the exact same spindles, the Scarebird bracket fits both. Scarebird has one for the ClassicBird and another for the Squarebird. The newer spindles have a new hole in the upper spindle arm.

What is the difference between Granada spindles and Squarebird spindles? Mainly the lower ball joint hole. It is smaller than the Thunderbird's, but may be reamed to spec. There may also be a slight difference in the spindle arm length or angle, but not enough to notice. I am using both setups with great success, and no issues with wheel alignment.

The real problem is finding Squarebird firewall brackets for the booster/master combination. Remember, original boosters were made for shoe systems. If used on disk brakes, they will feel like manual brakes (at best). If you are doing proper Power Disk Brakes, use a booster capable of producing 1,000-psi like a two-stage 8" vacuum booster. Then, you will have power brakes. - Dave

[DKheld]

Stu,
The Falcon spindle sounds similar to the Granada which had to have the lower ball joint hole machined at a new taper to fit the Tbird ball joint. Think I found later that I could have used the Granada ball joint and not had to have the spindle machined - might want to check on the Falcon ball joint and see if it will fit your Tbird A-Arm.

Dave,
I didn't know the full sized Fords and Tbird used the same spindle which explains a lot to me. My guess is the companies offering the conversions just look at the spindle number and assume that their conversion will also work on the Tbird since the spindles are the same. I believe the full size Fords have more adjustment options or distances than the Tbird which is why the later Tbird spindles work on the big cars and not the Tbird??? I appreciate the compliments.......

And - maybe this will help. If someone with a standard Tbird could take these same measurements we could get an idea of how much the Granada spindles lower the car.

21 3/8 to the top of the level which is "leveled" and under the top of the front bumper.


54 inches from the floor to the top of the car (bottom of the level which again is "leveled"). Can't see it but there is a piece of aluminum angle metal that the level is resting on. It spans the whole top of the car directily above the dome light. The ruler (at a 90 deg angle to the level) is touching the side of the car as it goes down to the floor (to give you an idea of where I was measuring from).



Somewhere I know I have the factory specs for height of the standard car - need to keep digging or maybe someone else has is handy. Just realized my tire size will probably make a slight difference - oh well - at least we will have a starting place.

Eric

[simplyconnected]

It is true that Granada spindles have smaller lower ball joint holes, but that's no biggie. Keep your Thunderbird ball joints and you can open the spindle hole. Reamers are available at many places. I have one of my own. The taper is the same, but the hole needs to be opened slightly. This can be done in a regular drill press with no special vise. The spindle is soft steel and the reamer goes in easily. There is no such thing as, 'the hole isn't perfectly straight' because the ball joint swivels.

Lincoln Versailles spindles are perfect for our ball joints. They already come with the correct size lower ball joint holes.

If you need a tapered reamer for Ford ball joints, here's one offered by Speedway Motors, using 1-1/2" per foot (standard Ford taper). It starts at 1/2" so it may be used on Ford tie rod holes:


I bought mine through Travers Tool Co. It was on sale at the time and made in the USA.


Both of these reamers may be used in a standard 1/2" chuck. - Dave

Edit: After installing the Granada spindles, I was also told to expect a 2-1/2" drop. Mine may have dropped 1/2" at the most. I attributed the new coil springs for the lack of drop, but now I see that Eric's didn't drop, either.