Ehaust manifold gasket, yet again

[Guest]

Hi all, I am back at it again. Fighting the exhasut leak on my 1960 Bird with the 352. At last check I was putting those "No Blow" gaskets on my car and it worked for a little while, then tragity stuck. They leaked. I was reading some of the old posts on gaskets and saw something atht made sense to me. If the gasket is going though cycles then if it is not metal or some by product then it's going to decay. I think I need something that is metal based as metal expands and contracts.I saw where Alexander was speaking on copper gaskets. I called JC Whitney and they no longer have 81DL4478W this part so I am asking does anyone have a new part number or a new company that sells these gaskets thanks in advance, Rodney

[Guest]

Exhaust manifolds revisited

After some checking I found that Mr. Gasket has a copper gasket part number 7164. I am getting mine from summit racing.http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MRG-7164/?rtype=10

[JohnG]

along with a gasket you might consider an adhesive. At your local auto parts store, look for a Permatex spray product for exhausts. The can and sealant are copper colored. I can get the exact name off the can once I get home from work.

Beyond that, check your surfaces for reasonable degree of flatness, torque bolts evenly, etc.

You might consider a "dry run" - put the components together with no gasket. Torque them down and then put feeler gauges in between and hunt for irregularities and gaps. It doesn't take much for a joint to go to ****, with all the heat and pressure it is subjected to. Attention to detail often pays off.

[Guest]

Exhaust ...

Before you reassemble lay a straight edge across the sealing surfaces and check for any variations on both the manifolds and cyl heads. Originally they used no gaskets. These were machined surfaces and none were required. If the manifolds are off they can be resurfaced. The cyl heads can be more problematic unless you have reason to remove them, but normally it will be the manifold that has warped. I use copper gaskets on all my header applications with great success. Measure the depth of the holes in the head and manifold and make sure none of your bolts are bottoming out before they get tight and that the threads are clean, and use a little anti-seize on the threads after cleaning them. Mike

[simplyconnected]

Most manifolds get so badly warped, the ears break off when you tighten them to the head. There's only one proper solution in my opinion; take your manifolds to a machine shop and let them mill the faces flat.

Machine shops don't charge much to 'true' a manifold because cast iron machines easily and if his setup is off by a little, it affects nothing.

The hardest part of this job is getting the exhaust manifolds off. Oh, yeah... NO gaskets. - Dave

[Guest]

the link

has anyone used the link at the beginning of the thead, are these the gaskets I should be using?

[JohnG]

Dave, you advocate for having the exhaust manifolds planed, leave the heads alone, and no gaskets?

john

[byersmtrco]

I've been fairly lucky with my 60.
The 390 my dad had in there was metal to metal
for 30+ years. It finally started leaking towards the end
there. When I put the new motor in, I had the manifs re-surfaced.
(Giant belt sander) and I run the copper gaskets.
If the car sits for a LONG time (I try to not let it) It will have a"slight"
leak for about 10-20 seconds.
Once it's warm, not a sound.

The 65 I had leaked BAD. We did the same thing. P I T A to change those
in that shock tower thing. They really put that 390 motor in there with a big shoe horn. But it was quiet. Those manifs warp.

A long time GM tech told me, when he does a motor swap (Eg;350 goodwrench) when he swaps the exh/manifs over - he removes them and doesn't even set them down. They go straight on the new engine. Even sitting for a short period un bolted, they can warp. Now these are 350 manifs (obviously different from from 390 log manifs, but same principal)

So anyway, are headers the answer? I don't know. Headers leak too.

No other Ford exh/manifs will work in our cars (steering gear clearance)
So I guess we're stuck with those log things.

[Guest]

Neither exh manifolds ...

or headers have to leak. I like a good sounding exhaust, but I hate leaks. Like most things in life after you do it wrong a enough times you eventually get it right. And like life, its mostly in the details, Clean, flat/parallel, and properly attached. Mike

[60 T-Bird]

No other Ford exh/manifs will work in our cars (steering gear clearance)
So I guess we're stuck with those log things.

I found a guy in Milpitas, Ca. with a pile of new headers he rescued from a guy closing a business. He had a set off a 390. I bought them in an attempt to make my own shorty set for my 60. I have a fab shop here at the house. Wish me luck...I don't want those logs either....

[byersmtrco]

Who in Milpitas? I'm right by there (go by it every day) I live in SJ & work in Fremont.

I found a guy in Milpitas, Ca. with a pile of new headers he rescued from a guy closing a business. He had a set off a 390. I bought them in an attempt to make my own shorty set for my 60. I have a fab shop here at the house. Wish me luck...I don't want those logs either....

[Guest]

FPA makes a set of shorties ...

for the Squarebirds. 13/4" tubes. Mike

[simplyconnected]

Dave, you advocate for having the exhaust manifolds planed, leave the heads alone, and no gaskets?..

Yes, John. Heads are water cooled and warp far less than exhaust manifolds. Heads still warp, but not nearly as much.

When overhauling an engine, ALL mating surfaces should be 'skinned', even if it is just to take out water pits. Old parts are 'seasoned' and when trued, they should last longer than new parts.

Ever unscrew an old exhaust manifold bolt? The exposed part is really messed up. The portion that enters the head is like new, all the way in. It's a sign of less heat, so less corrosion. But the bolt-heads are so messed up, it's hard to grab-hold of them to turn. If they were bottomed-out, the bolt will usually break flush with the cylinder head because the steel is annealed (but not the threaded portion inside the head). I've been experimenting with 3/8" stainless steel socket head cap screws. I think they might corrode less than carbon steel, and the heads are small for cramped wrenching. So far, so good. - Dave

[scumdog]

I've been experimenting with 3/8" stainless steel socket head cap screws. I think they might corrode less than carbon steel, and the heads are small for cramped wrenching. So far, so good. - Dave

I use them on my F100, on my '66 Thunderbird I use the factory steel bolts, on both vehicles (and most others I've owned) I put Kopper-Kote anti-seize on th ebolt threads, the don't seize in the heads then.

And on exhausts with studs instead of bolts I use brass nuts. (For the same reason)

[60 T-Bird]

Who in Milpitas? I'm right by there (go by it every day) I live in SJ & work in Fremont.

He was on craigslist. I got the last FE set. The rest are Ford small black, dodge and chev.