Faulty voltage regulator?

[peeeot]

Since I got my car running, the generator light has been on at all times while running and the battery is not being charged.

I started by checking out the generator. The brushes were stuck, bearings worn out and brush springs in pieces. I had a shop check the rest out and replace the bearings and springs. I guess they didn't see the need to replace the brushes because they didn't say anything about them.

With the generator reinstalled, the warning light is still on. The test procedures for the voltage regulator are very complicated and I don't have the equipment for most of them anyway. I cleaned the corroded contact points and visually inspected everything else. Still no charging. I noticed, however, that the cut-out contacts were not closing.

From what I understand in the manual, the cut-out contacts close when the generator produces enough voltage to overcome spring tension, namely 12 volts. If the points stayed closed, the battery would drain through the generator armature. I speculated that if the regulator were at fault, connecting the points by hand (forcing them shut) would result in charging and turn off the GEN light. If the generator were at fault, forcing the cutout points shut would only drain the battery quickly.

So, I tried forcing the points shut, and the GEN light went out immediately. Am I right to conclude that I have a fauly voltage regulator?

[peeeot]

RE: Faulty voltage regulator?

I did some more studying and determined that the test I did didn't prove anything. I replaced the voltage regulator anyway, though, and it took care of the problem.

In fact, I took the car for its first (very brief) drive today!!!! :7 It rode great but it was stumbling when I tried to increase RPMs. Another problem to tackle.

[Alexander]

RE: Faulty voltage regulator?

Congratulations on your first ride. Check the timing, sse if the distributor is advancing with vacuum and rpm. Has the carburetor been rebuilt? The accelerator pump may not be working.

Alexander
1959 Hardtop
1960 Golde Top

[peeeot]

RE: Faulty voltage regulator?

I put a timing light on to verify that the spark was advancing, and it was, but once it's off the scale on the balancer it's hard for me to know whether it's advancing correctly.

As for the carburetor, it has been rebuilt. It's a 1964 unit with 48 primary and 60 secondary jets. Initially, I set the floats according the 1964 spec on the rebuild kit sheet (21/32") but after the stumbling I tried setting it to the 1959 spec (29/64"). It didn't fix the problem but it didn't dribble fuel either, so I left it there. For all it's worth, I can see the little sprays of fuel squirting in when I work the throttle as well.

I'll also note that the spark plugs show a variety of symptoms: A couple look perfect, one looks kind of wet(clear fluid), and the others mostly look rich. All give a consistent signal from the timing light.

[peeeot]

RE: Faulty voltage regulator?

Anything else to check? Any way of testing for correct advance without putting the distributor on a bench?

Voltage at the bat terminal of the coil is about 8.2 volts. Might that have anything to do with it?

[Alexander]

RE: Faulty voltage regulator?

An incorrect fuel level in the carburetor may make your car hesitate, as the carburetor may act inappropriately rich if the level is high or inappropriately lean if it is low. Look into the carburetor while the engine is running, if you see a lot of fuel coming down the venturis at idle, your float level is too high. The bowls of the Ford 4100 are connected, so one level misadjustment may affect the other.

Check your accelerator pump on the carburetor to make sue it is working properly.

Check for vacuum leaks between the carburetor and the manifold. Check for vacuum leaks in general.

Alexander
1959 Hardtop
1960 Golde Top

[peeeot]

RE: Faulty voltage regulator?

Looking in the carburetor with the engine running, there is no fuel visible, even after I raised the fuel level. The engine's performance was not significantly affected by the change in fuel level either, so maybe it is still too low. In the booster venturis, there are little holes from which the atomized fuel issues. Should the fuel level in the bowls be just below the bottom of these holes? This has been my theory, based on what I know about how carburetion works.

The accelerator pump squirts two little streams of fuel into the carburetor when I work the throttle. I don't know how to check the volume of fuel coming out, so I assume it's working properly.

I have only replaced one of the two carburetor gaskets, so there is a possibility of vacuum leak there. I don't have the lean mixture that (I thought) normally comes with vacuum leaks but I can at least replace the gaskets to eliminate that problem. Could an inappropriate pcv valve result in what I'm experiencing? I selected one somewhat arbitrarily.

[Alexander]

RE: Faulty voltage regulator?

If you plug the vacuum port and remove the PCV valve, you will have your answer if the pcv valve is affecting the system. I think there is a broad range of PCV valves you can use. The spring in the PCV valve is designed in relation to how much vacuum an engine develops. I would use one from a V-8 engine of similar displacement.

Alexander
1959 Hardtop
1960 Golde Top

[peeeot]

RE: Faulty voltage regulator?

hmmm.... if I have some blowby vapors coming out of the oil filler cap/breather, does that mean I'm probably using the wrong valve, or is it normal?

Is the fuel level in the bowls supposed to be just below the booster venturi holes?

[Alexander]

RE: Faulty voltage regulator?

With a PCV working, you should not be getting any blowby from the oil cap. The air should be circulating into the oil cap.

What is the idle vacuum on your car?

I have a disassembled 4100 carburetor on my bench, but I cannot tell by looking at it how high the fuel level should be.

Alexander
1959 Hardtop
1960 Golde Top

[peeeot]

RE: Faulty voltage regulator?

hmmm, I was thinking that might be the case. The crankcase ventilation diagrams in the manual show the oil cap as the INLET for fresh air, not an outlet for fumes, and a pcv should be pulling air through even at idle. Just a note, my PCV valve is mounted horizontally rather than the typical vertical. Does orientation affect operation?

My brother has had the vacuum gauge so I haven't gotten to check it yet. I'll check ASAP.

[peeeot]

RE: Faulty voltage regulator?

Okay, so the vacuum gauge read a pretty steady 20.1 inches of mercury. Periodic fluctuations never went more than a hair below 20.

but guess what? I was fiddling around with the vacuum advance line because I though it strange that idle quality was not affected by having the line disconnected and not plugged. When revving the engine with my finger plugging the vac. advance line (to feel if there was suction) it revved much more smoothly!

As it turns out, with the engine at about 1100 rpms (where it starts to stumble), the spark is advanced around 30 degrees BTDC! That's just too far.

The vacuum advance or/and the distributor have been replaced at some point in this car's life. It is not the original type; it take a rubber hose rather than a threaded fitting. Should I start by replacing the vac. advance?

Or, since a remanufactured distributor is only about $20 more, should I just replace the whole thing?

[Alexander]

RE: Faulty voltage regulator?

You can look at the timing marks as a reference, but do not take them as accurate. The outer part of the harmonic balancers often if not always shift, causing the timing marks to be inaccurate. Set your initial timing at idle speed to the best vacuum and highest RPM See if the timing does advance as the RPM's go up without the vacuum advance connected. If not, then the centrifugal advance is defective. Next connect the vacuum advance. You should notice the timing advances more rapidly when the throttle is suddenly pulled. If it does not, your vacuum advance is defective.

If everything is working. drive the car. You should have the slightest bit of ping on hard acceleration. If there more ping than that, retard the ignition timing by rotating the distributor.

Ford V-8 engines used similar distributors for almost 25 years. There is a lot of interchangeability. If you do not have the correct distributor, it may not have the correct springs and weights inside the distributor, so that your advancement curve may be off.

Alexander
1959 Hardtop
1960 Golde Top

[peeeot]

RE: Faulty voltage regulator?

Since the local parts store happened to have one in stock, I went ahead and replaced the distributor. The motor is now running the best it has yet. It still is not as smooth as I'd like though. I can rev it up (slowly) to 1500 and it feels pretty good. Up any higher and it feels like a much weaker version of the same problem. A quick rev feels pretty normal.

I think there's a good chance that the old distributor was either the original or a rather old replacement. It had the same L-shaped connector for the coil terminal that is present in other places in the original wiring of the car. Also, the original coil does not have a nut on that terminal, so they match up.

I still have some tuning to do, and I will address that before looking harder at the advance/timing setup. Something has improved though.

[peeeot]

RE: Faulty voltage regulator?

Okay, I spent a good deal of time trying to tune today. I hooked up the vacuum gauge and made adjustments to timing, mixture screws, dwell, and float level. I was unable to get the engine running as well as it should, at idle or otherwise.

At this point, everything in the ignition system is new: plugs, wires, cap, rotor, distributor, points, condensor, resistor, coil. Only the low-voltage wiring is old. Every time I pull the plugs, I see evidence of a rich mixture.

Vacuum may fluctuate but it is always in spec, sometimes even a hair higher.

I feel like my carburetor has to be at fault. Any other ideas?